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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000376.txt from 2001/05

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: Re: [kl] Professor Wheeler's tongue
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 06:49:30 -0400

On Sun, 13 May 2001 21:51:51 -0500, rgarrett@-----.edu said:

> At 10:34 PM 05/13/2001 +0100, you wrote:

> > Wheeler claims that even expert players don't know what their tongue
> > is doing unless they use similar technology to the technology he
> > used. That's what I meant by saying "we don't *know* whether what he
> > says is correct or not."
>
> No.
>
> We do know because Wheeler confirmed what we already knew. And our
> results prove his conclusions.
>
> > The 'we' applies to all of us.
>
> Yes - it does.

So, I don't understand. I still don't know what the back of my tongue
does as I change register, except to the extent I accept Wheeler. How
can it be something we already knew, before reading Wheeler, or
Wheeler-like investigations?

I know that people *said* lots of different things -- about airspeed and
so on. But those things often contradicted each other, and might just
have been playing metaphors.

> > So, if you accept what he says, then tongue position *can't* be
> > taught directly, because even if you say the right thing, students
> > don't know whether or not they're following your instructions.
>
> That is correct. You have guessed correctly what I agreed with.

OK.

> > think it's interesting information that what some teachers have
> > always told their students may be contrary to the facts.
>
> Yes, it is very interesting.
>
> > The question is, is Wheeler right?
>
> Probably.

By Wheeler 'being right', I meant both that the back of the tongue does
that, and in that direction, as we change register; and that we have no
direct experience of it doing so.

> > It all depends on whether you believe his experimental results. It
> > *doesn't* depend on your own experience.
>
> Unless it does.

But, how can it depend on your own experience? Or do you have direct
knowledge of what the back of your tongue does, as opposed to just
having been told that it does that (presumably as a result of some
investigation like Wheeler's)?

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN artist: http://www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339

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