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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000780.txt from 2000/07

From: les debusk <sflane@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Weber Concerto derived from Mozart?
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:28:55 -0400

i understand what your saying.. Leeson.. but i think that the way she wrote modern she
was saying he composed differently .. he used more unconnected notes to form a melody
unlike Mozart's flowing style.. and as Andrea said "fluid". i personally think that
these two composers are very different in style.. i was just wondering if anyone felt
similarities or other wise.. due to the age and no resource of the original piece by
mozart we cant tell.. but if im not mistaken Mozart wrote the piece (622) not for Bb
but for an earlier clarinet that played a lot lower, down to Low Low "C". then changed
over due to popularity or something of those means..
les.d.

Daniel Leeson wrote:

> Andrea Bergamin wrote:
> >
> > > Da: les debusk <sflane@-----.com>
> > > Risposta: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Data: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:46:12 -0400
> > > A: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Oggetto: Re: [kl] Weber Concerto derived from Mozart?
> > >
> > > I had come across an article which stated that Webers Concertos were thought
> > > upon when/after Mozart wrote his famous clarinet concerto.. i cant remember
> > > where i read this but it was just on my mind.. do you think that Mozart's tone
> > > and way or composer in his concerto rubbed off onto weber's clarinet
> > > concerto?..
> >
> > I'd like to read this article.
> >
> > Technically speaking... there is no evidence of this fact.
> >
> > Mozart were affected by the early works for clarinet and it is obvious from
> > some behavior (for example... the contrast of the registers: the melodic
> > line is not "fluid" but is broken through the register zones of the
> > instrument...). Mozart refers to the clarinet technique he has heard in
> > Mannheim and there are some similitude with Stamitz's concerts.
> >
> > In Weber the instrument is used more modernly: jumps, dynamics,
> > articulation... something you will never find in Mozart's 622.
>
> Very well put Andrea but, as you said below, very subjective. From the
> point of view of articulation, no one has any idea of what Mozart
> requested because there is no source to check. But what is there in
> Mozart's other compositions that use a clarinet (and for which we have a
> source) that leads you to believe that the way he wrote is less "modern"
> than the way Weber wrote? Personally, I have no objections if you feel
> Mozart's music in this way, but I think it to be a mistake to generalize
> it as descriptive of what he actually did. Are you suggesting there are
> no leaps or widely spaced intervals in the concerto, the quintet, or
> even the clarinet parts of the wind serenades.
>
> Many people who, as you clearly do, like Mozart and probably play it
> very well make the leap from what it is they like to do and to hear,
> across the canyon and conclude that what they like is (or is not)
> Mozart's characteristic metier.
>
> I suggest that Weber's concerti are still lovely pieces but they fade in
> and out of popularity because they are so fixed in time, whereas the
> Mozart concerto has no such restriction and is as delightful today as
> the day it was written. Personally (and very much personally), I think
> the Weber concerti are over the hill with far fewer performances by
> major players as the years go by, whereas fistfights break out on this
> list about which low notes to play in K. 622.
>
> And Weber's slippage from the music scene is also a characteristic of
> his operas and symphonies too. To mount Oberon, for example, is most
> unusual partly because Weber is perceived as a bright, second-class
> composer. I don't suggest that this is true and I have no ability to
> make such judgements, but look for yourself. When was the last time you
> heard a symphony by Weber? What was the last Weber opera you heard?
> When did you last hear a major, world-class clarinet play perform a
> Weber concerto?
>
> Just a thought, but I still very much enjoyed your perspective on this
> matter even though we may have different views on it.
>
> Dan Leeson
> >
> > >From the formal point of view the two concerts are completely different.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > If you are talking of general "tone" then we can only discuss on subjective
> > feelings.
> >
> > To me... they are completely different.
> > In Weber you can find a flaunty way of playing: more virtuosistic,
> > wheedling, whimpering...
> >
> > In Mozart the clarinet is more evocative, more innerly deep; there are no
> > "commercial effects".
> >
> > But... this is subjective!
> >
> > > Da: les debusk <sflane@-----.com>
> > > Risposta: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Data: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:46:12 -0400
> > > A: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Oggetto: Re: [kl] Weber Concerto derived from Mozart?
> > >
> > > I had come across an article which stated that Webers Concertos were thought
> > > upon when/after Mozart wrote his famous clarinet concerto.. i cant remember
> > > where i read this but it was just on my mind.. do you think that Mozart's tone
> > > and way or composer in his concerto rubbed off onto weber's clarinet
> > > concerto?..
> > >
> > > "Dee D. Hays" wrote:
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
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