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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000846.txt from 2000/04

Subj: [kl] Early Clarinet
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:42:15 -0400

George Kidder wrote,
>I think your idea of a policy statement is a good one. I suspect that what
bugs Leila most (as it would bug me) is the virtual theft of her name and
email address by the new list owners. If this were known to be the price of
subscription, then she could decide if it was worth it. >

Mark Charette wrote:
>>What really got me was the granting of _copyright_ to the list! >>

Yes, these are exactly the things that bug me most. Caveat: I'm not an
attorney and can't give legal advice. Also, I don't know what the Early
Clarinet List's own Terms of Service looks like, now that the list is on
eGroups, because I unsubscribed after deciding I didn't want to participate
in *any* lists on eGroups. However, in addition to the concerns I mentioned
in my previous message, I have a problem with eGroups' own TOS (the one that
applies to all the lists), because one section about copyright appears to me
to void parts of the other. See sections 11 and 12 of the TOS at

I have no problem with Section 11, "Content Posted on the Service." It says,
in essence, that by posting content to a group, a member gives eGroups the
right to distribute the material to that group, royalty free, while other
members of the group have the right to download the content for their
personal use. Members agree to "take whatever action necessary to protect
your own intellectual property rights . . . including without limitation the
posting of appropriate copyright notices" and to post only material they have
the right to publish, without infringing anyone else's copyright. That all
seems normal and reasonable to me.

However, Section 12, "Egroup's Proprietary Rights," is extremely broadly
worded. It states that all "Content, including but not limited to text"
that's "presented through the Service by eGroups or eGroups' advertisers is
protected by their copyrights...." This section concludes, "You agree not to
modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, sell or
distribute in any way Content available through the Service...." This
section makes *no distinction* between content written by eGroups and content
written by contributors to the groups. I read these words to mean that, by
posting material to an eGroups list, group members relinquish the copyright
to their own words and turn the copyright over to eGroups.

As I said, I'm no attorney, but if I read that section accurately, the one
specific action I *must* take to protect my own property rights, as per
Section 11, is *not to post anything in an eGroups list* -- otherwise, I
evoke the Fire Gods of Section 12! For instance, if I posted something on
Early Clarinet, I would have no right to cross-post it here. Fortunately, the
Copyright Act specifically gives permission to quote for the purpose of
writing a critical review -- so this is my critical review of the weasel
words on the eGroups TOS: Thumbs Down and a razzberry.

[not "Leila" :-) ]
Wherever there are visible vapors having their inception in ignited
carboniferous materials, there is conflagration.

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