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Klarinet Archive - Posting 001559.txt from 1998/04

From: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [klarinet] Browbeating is not appreciated either!
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:20:46 -0400

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Jonathan Cohler wrote:
> Quite contrary to what you state above about "disdain/disregard for other
> people and their feelings," I find these statements to be purely factual in
> nature, succint, and to the point. I know that when I use these
> statements, they are never meant with any disrespect.

Browbeating: to intimidate with harsh, stern talk; bully.

> I think everyone on the list would agree that ad hominem (i.e. appealing to
> personal prejudices or emotions rather than to reason) attacks are
> inappropriate in this forum (as in most forums).

Let me quote you Jonathan: "speak for your yourself.....others can speak
for themselves." Your statement, "I think everyone on the list would
agree...." is very, very presumptions and has no basis in fact. Your
conclusion that I am attacking because of personal prejudice is
flawed.....I am offended by your lack of concern for others. If you want
to call that personal prejudice.........go ahead.......but it doesn't make
it so.

Ad-hominem also means: attacking the character, motive, etc. of an
opponent rather than debating the issue on logical grounds.

My personal opinion is that you browbeat your opponents during what you
consider to be a debate. There is nowhere in the definition of the
listserv or in any of the criteria for being a member of the listserv that
mentions we are following a debate format. Rather, we are regular old
people explaining our opinions. If you have a disagreement with an
opinion, your tactics are unethical and lact tact and consideration for
others.......regardless of your logic in presenting a point. I do recall
some suggestions for how to interact on the listserv....I really think it
might be helpful for you to go back and reread those suggestions.

Many people are taken aback by your cross examination techniques - yet
when you are questioned closely about your facts, you frequently tell
people that their questions have nothing to do with the issues....when in
fact, they were completely relevant. This attempt to discourage a
person's question through authoritative statements is misleading and
hypocritical.

Generally, people are not acustomed to someone being so abrupt and
thoughtless regarding something they have said. You come on so strong
that people simply do not respond....at least to you. Some people are
afraid to respond to you for fear that you will treat them the way you
treat me.....publicly. But you see, what you say about me is that I don't
like your tactics. And I don't......and I am not afraid to tell you
that.....no matter what you say about me here.

As far as debate goes, frequently, you change the subject or try to
explain a different motive than what you initially describe.......this is
called being misleading.....usually to cover a mistake. But keep in
mind....no one is scoring a debate! "There you go again......" got Regan
points in the debate.....but you scored nothing except that you felt
better. Your conclusion was still incorrect.

So....here we are disagreeing. Perhaps the best way to resolve the issue
is for me to try not to be so upset that you are browbeating, and then I
will not attack your tactics.

Roger Garrett
IWU

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