Klarinet Archive - Posting 000188.txt from 2011/08
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:10:31 -0400
Hi Alvin,
Thanks for your careful clarification. I do see what you mean.
There's a misunderstanding about the Valentino pads, though. They fit
_inside_ the cup, not on top of the rim. So the size you need is the inside
diameter of the cup - no overlap. The pad then fits inside (different
thicknesses are available, and you can use card as a shim for either
thickness or angle) and most of the edge is protected by the cup rim. It
looks neat and is stable. So you'll probably need to order smaller diameter
but thicker pads than you would be used to.
This won't work of course if the tone hole is too large relative to the cup,
and an overlap is required for sealing. I haven't found this a problem on
the padding I've done but I have a tiny fraction of your experience. Ideally
the clarinet key maker would design the cups so that they were suitable for
straight pads. The Meinels that I've just overhauled was not - the pads I
took off it were T shaped leather (badly deteriorated), but it repadded
successfully with Valentinos. Admittedly some of the clearances were a bit
close!
I have tried the range of traditional adhesives (shellac, French stick etc)
and find that hot melt glue (same as the carpenters' stuff from Home Depot
etc stores) works best for me; it remelts easily for floating and is very
reliable (I know that Steve Fox uses it and it clearly lasts for many
years). It seems to melt at a slightly lower temperature than the others,
which is advantageous as one does not want to get a synthetic pad too hot.
We eagerly await your tests!
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: sfdr@-----.com]
Sent: 20 August 2011 03:16
To: klarinet@-----.com
Subject: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Hi Keith,
I do used both the vacuum and Mag test when checking for leaks. The Lohff
pad clarinet played quite well and so did the corkpad overhaul.
As for the best pad fit, the more margin you have outside of the pad seat,
the more stability you have. If you have an 8 mm pad seat and a 9 mm
straight pad, then there is only a 1/2 mm margin which can curl or collapse
over time. This problem can occur with any material including cork or felt.
Hans Moennig used T shaped pads which rested on the pad cup rim. This
Moennig design allows a margin 2 or 3 mm outside of the seat. This Moennig
pad design is especially helpful for the large throat A tone hole pad seat.
As for the Angle of the pad, Moennig would cut the cork pad to match the
relationship of the key to the tone hole. If the old pad was floated on an
angle the the cork pad would be cut to match that same angle. Mr. Moennig
would put enough shellac in the key cup to ooze over the rim to float and
hold the pad margin in place. I do center the and cup over the tone hole but
I usually don't worry about the paralellism because I float the pad in place
with extra shellac.
This week, I will order some of the Valentino pads to try.
Thanks,
Alvin Swiney
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Bowen <keith.bowen@-----.com>
To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List' <klarinet@-----.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 10:03 am
Subject: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Hi Alvin,
I'm curious - if you have a Mag machine, why do you not use it instead of
vacuum testing? I am sure the Moennig-style pads sealed extremely well, but
a low pressure test is closer to the playing situation. By the way, how did
the Lohff clarinet play in comparison with the Buffet?
It's correct that for these pads there is no shoulder to rest on the rim of
the key cup. The dimension of the pad is the inside of the cup. I by no
means wish to belittle your enormous experience, but isn't it true that the
shoulder of the pad cannot rest uniformly on the rim of the pad *after*
floating and alignment of the pad? Or do you adjust for parallelism by
mechanical alignment (bending) of the cup alone?
I've had no pad warping or deterioration on my basset horns after 7/8 years.
I don't know what Hasty or Gigliotti used, sorry.
Forest has already replied on the 'sheet' misunderstanding. Your opinion on
the real Valentino pads would be most interesting.
Keith Bowen
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