Klarinet Archive - Posting 000161.txt from 2011/08

From: "Forest Aten" <forestaten@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:54:34 -0400

Alvin

I've had Valentino pads on several of my clarinets for over seven years now, without a change in pad or single issue.
I've never had shrinkage or change in shape in any Valentino pad. I use my clarinets very hard. (Six hour opera
rehearsal days plus teaching/practice.) In my experience, the vacuum in the synthetic pad is always much better than any
cork pad I've ever seen/used (and I've owned two Moennig Buffet R13s, worked on by Moennig). I used to take lots of time
seating cork pads on upper joints and had good success but the Valentino has always worked better for me. My Valentino
padded clarinets have the best seal I've ever experienced.
I have no direct knowledge or experience with Lohff's pad.

Forest

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfdr@-----.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 7:27 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.com
> Subject: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
>
> Hi Forest,
> I have overhauled over 3,000 clarinets in my career as a repairman. As an apprentice, I watched
> Hans Moennig Overhaul instruments for Robert Marcellus, Harold Wright and David Weber. He always used
> handmade cork pads on the top joint and double skinned bladder pads on the lower joints made with
> compressed felt. He tested his work by closing all of the tone holes and pulling a lip vacuum on the
> joints. Mr. Moennig would then walk across the room numerous times to see how long it would take for
> the the vacuum to to dissipate. The cork pad Moennig overhaul vacuum usually lasted two or three
> minutes. He felt that a good pad seat in cork would improve over time and last for many years.
> However, pads made of foam like material have a tendency to loose their seat over time. This three
> minute vacuum standard is the one that I have used throughout my career.
> I have seen the Lohff vinyl pad as well as the Valentino pads. In my experience, they tend to
> collapse, shrink and loose their shape after six months of playing. I have also had problems with
> getting them to seal for more than 15 seconds. I inherited two clarinets that once belonged to Ralph
> McLane. These instruments were overhauled by Hans Moennig in 1950. After all these years, they still
> will hold a 90 second vacuum.
>
>
> Just another opinion,
>
>
> Alvin Swiney
> 3126 W Cary St. #237
> Richmond, VA 23221
> sfdr@-----.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forest Aten <forestaten@-----.com>
> To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List' <klarinet@-----.com>
> Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 10:41 am
> Subject: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
>
>
> Clark
>
> I haven't experienced the things you describe in/on my synthetic pad clarinets.
> I do all of my own pad/repair work and
> have all (about 15) clarinets done in Valentino pads. They are tight and the
> sound off the pads even and clean. I have
> no issues with legato playing, using synthetic pads. Also, because the pads seal
> so very well, technique is cleaner and
> sound is quicker out the instrument. And the work is "clean". :-)
> I use Valentino's on my bass as well....but only up to 20mm pads. Anything
> larger are extremely difficult to seat and
> the pad slap is not acceptable.
>
> Your comment about "easier to install" might be misleading. When moving from
> traditional pads to the "stiff" Greenback
> Valentino pad, it requires complete removal of all key work, this to ensure
> absolute clean pad cups at installation.
> This takes a lot of time. In addition, the placement of the pad in the cup and
> adjustment of key work to "get it
> right"....takes careful consideration....just as careful as using traditional
> pads. In some cases, it's better to use
> the traditional Valentino and use the traditional "float" method.
>
> I have never experienced "noise" from a Valentino pad...or perhaps I should say,
> "not any more noise than from a
> traditional felt/bladder pad".
>
> All Valentino pads that I've ever used, have very stiff cardboard backing. ????
> I don't understand your "eventually
> creep up into any gaps" statement??
>
> I'll sure agree with your observation about the lack of "artist level repair
> work". Not much of that going on....
>
> Forest
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clark Fobes [mailto:claroneman@-----.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 11:40 AM
> > To: klarinet@-----.com
> > Subject: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
> >
> > I so rarely post to the Klarinet any more, but I have been seeing a disturbing
> trend in clarinet
> > repair that I want to address. This is the use of synthetic pads for ALL pads
> on the clarinet.
> >
> > I want to say first that I am not against the use of synthetic pads entirely-
> they have a use,
> > particularly in the upper joint pads of the bass clarinet. They are probably
> a good idea for student
> > instruments that receive a lot of abuse. But for professional level clarinets
> I only use them in two
> > places: the Ab/Eb pad on the lower joint and the F# ring key pad on the upper
> joint (opens over the
> > throat G tone hole). Synthetic pads are not a good choice for pads that are
> sprung open.
> >
> > Here are several reasons. Once synthetic pads are seated they have almost no
> give at all. In the case
> > of the long E/B of the lower joint, this can cause leaks unless the mechanism
> has absolutely no play
> > and the F/C and E/B pads are in perfect synch. Because synthetic pads have
> almost no "give" or
> > "cushion" they slap the tone hole and it is virtually impossible to make a
> good legato when slurring
> > from G/D to E/B. The very crisp edge of the pads create turbulence and noise
> unless the pad is
> > adjusted very high from the tone hole, which changes the pitch (towards
> sharpness) and creates too
> > much distance for facile playing. And finally, most of the synthetic pads I
> have seen do not have a
> > stiff backing, consequently the pad cup must be filled with glue completely
> (that technique seems to
> > escape most repair men) other wise the synthetic pad will eventually creep up
> into any gaps in the
> > glue and will eventually leak.
> >
> > A good pad job should be quiet, have a soft feel and look CLEAN.
> >
> > I understand the trend. Synthetic pads are much easier to install than
> traditional pads and do not
> > require the skill or the sensitivity required to "float" a skin or leather pad
> and the job can be done
> > faster.
> >
> > I am distressed at the lack of artist level repair work in general. I hope
> that players will start
> > looking more carefully at the work they are paying for and demand a higher
> standard.
> >
> > Clark W Fobes
> > _______________________________________________
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