Klarinet Archive - Posting 000160.txt from 2011/08
From: sfdr@-----.com
Subj: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:26:42 -0400
Hi Forest,
I have overhauled over 3,000 clarinets in my career as a repairman. As an apprentice, I watched Hans Moennig Overhaul instruments for Robert Marcellus, Harold Wright and David Weber. He always used handmade cork pads on the top joint and double skinned bladder pads on the lower joints made with compressed felt. He tested his work by closing all of the tone holes and pulling a lip vacuum on the joints. Mr. Moennig would then walk across the room numerous times to see how long it would take for the the vacuum to to dissipate. The cork pad Moennig overhaul vacuum usually lasted two or three minutes. He felt that a good pad seat in cork would improve over time and last for many years. However, pads made of foam like material have a tendency to loose their seat over time. This three minute vacuum standard is the one that I have used throughout my career.
I have seen the Lohff vinyl pad as well as the Valentino pads. In my experience, they tend to collapse, shrink and loose their shape after six months of playing. I have also had problems with getting them to seal for more than 15 seconds. I inherited two clarinets that once belonged to Ralph McLane. These instruments were overhauled by Hans Moennig in 1950. After all these years, they still will hold a 90 second vacuum.
Just another opinion,
Alvin Swiney
3126 W Cary St. #237
Richmond, VA 23221
sfdr@-----.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Forest Aten <forestaten@-----.com>
To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List' <klarinet@-----.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 10:41 am
Subject: Re: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
Clark
I haven't experienced the things you describe in/on my synthetic pad clarinets.
I do all of my own pad/repair work and
have all (about 15) clarinets done in Valentino pads. They are tight and the
sound off the pads even and clean. I have
no issues with legato playing, using synthetic pads. Also, because the pads seal
so very well, technique is cleaner and
sound is quicker out the instrument. And the work is "clean". :-)
I use Valentino's on my bass as well....but only up to 20mm pads. Anything
larger are extremely difficult to seat and
the pad slap is not acceptable.
Your comment about "easier to install" might be misleading. When moving from
traditional pads to the "stiff" Greenback
Valentino pad, it requires complete removal of all key work, this to ensure
absolute clean pad cups at installation.
This takes a lot of time. In addition, the placement of the pad in the cup and
adjustment of key work to "get it
right"....takes careful consideration....just as careful as using traditional
pads. In some cases, it's better to use
the traditional Valentino and use the traditional "float" method.
I have never experienced "noise" from a Valentino pad...or perhaps I should say,
"not any more noise than from a
traditional felt/bladder pad".
All Valentino pads that I've ever used, have very stiff cardboard backing. ????
I don't understand your "eventually
creep up into any gaps" statement??
I'll sure agree with your observation about the lack of "artist level repair
work". Not much of that going on....
Forest
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clark Fobes [mailto:claroneman@-----.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 11:40 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.com
> Subject: [kl] Rant against a trend in pad work
>
> I so rarely post to the Klarinet any more, but I have been seeing a disturbing
trend in clarinet
> repair that I want to address. This is the use of synthetic pads for ALL pads
on the clarinet.
>
> I want to say first that I am not against the use of synthetic pads entirely-
they have a use,
> particularly in the upper joint pads of the bass clarinet. They are probably
a good idea for student
> instruments that receive a lot of abuse. But for professional level clarinets
I only use them in two
> places: the Ab/Eb pad on the lower joint and the F# ring key pad on the upper
joint (opens over the
> throat G tone hole). Synthetic pads are not a good choice for pads that are
sprung open.
>
> Here are several reasons. Once synthetic pads are seated they have almost no
give at all. In the case
> of the long E/B of the lower joint, this can cause leaks unless the mechanism
has absolutely no play
> and the F/C and E/B pads are in perfect synch. Because synthetic pads have
almost no "give" or
> "cushion" they slap the tone hole and it is virtually impossible to make a
good legato when slurring
> from G/D to E/B. The very crisp edge of the pads create turbulence and noise
unless the pad is
> adjusted very high from the tone hole, which changes the pitch (towards
sharpness) and creates too
> much distance for facile playing. And finally, most of the synthetic pads I
have seen do not have a
> stiff backing, consequently the pad cup must be filled with glue completely
(that technique seems to
> escape most repair men) other wise the synthetic pad will eventually creep up
into any gaps in the
> glue and will eventually leak.
>
> A good pad job should be quiet, have a soft feel and look CLEAN.
>
> I understand the trend. Synthetic pads are much easier to install than
traditional pads and do not
> require the skill or the sensitivity required to "float" a skin or leather pad
and the job can be done
> faster.
>
> I am distressed at the lack of artist level repair work in general. I hope
that players will start
> looking more carefully at the work they are paying for and demand a higher
standard.
>
> Clark W Fobes
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