Klarinet Archive - Posting 000065.txt from 2011/08

From: "Dan Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:25:58 -0400

There are two issues involved in your question: (1) what was the composer's
perspective, and (2) where was the performer's perspective? The minuet was
about to go out of style, and the scherzo to come into the style. Faster
movements do not lend themselves to generous improvisation, so perhaps the
practice went out when the motion got faster.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
To: "'The Klarinet Mailing List'" <klarinet@-----.com>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat

> Dan, do we know how long that practice continued? My guess would be when
> the
> minuet/trio become supplanted by the scherzo, but it's only a guess.
>
> Keith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Leeson [mailto:dnleeson@-----.net]
> Sent: 12 August 2011 15:12
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat
>
> Your first paragraph is exactly correct. And I know the work to which you
> are referring. It is a string trio, and the comment, "Da capo senza
> repliche" automatically implies that taking the repeats was the normal
> custom.
>
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
> To: "'The Klarinet Mailing List'" <klarinet@-----.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 6:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat
>
>
>> Dan
>>
>> There is at least one occasion, which you can probably reference, in
>> which
>> Mozart writes at the end of a trio section of a minuet, "da capo senza
>> repliche". Which implies that the normal custom was to take repeats in
>> the
>> DC part of a minuet, unlike current practice.
>>
>> It's an interesting remark that the influence of early recording
>> technology
>> may have affected current practice.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Leeson [mailto:dnleeson@-----.net]
>> Sent: 12 August 2011 13:18
>> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat
>>
>> I've never heard this explanation for repeats, but I would not discount
>> this
>>
>> possibility. Also recognize that with the pre-33-1/3 rpm recordings,
>> repeats were NEVER taken so as to allow the performance to be contained
>> on
>> the old 12 inch 78-rpm disk. I once had a cellist who had played with
>> Brahms
>>
>> what they did in Vienna in the late 1800s, and he told me that they
>> always
>> repeated everything. Today, we don't repeat anything. Times and
>> circumstances change performance practices.
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Baxter" <martinbaxter1@-----.com>
>> To: "The Klarinet Mailing List" <klarinet@-----.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart quintet repeat
>>
>>
>>> Dan,
>>> Isn't there a third reason: that composers would not necessarily have
>>> their works heard more than once (no recordings + in Vienna, a taste for
>>> novelty in music) and therefore repeated thematic material in order that
>>> the listener should have more chance of recognizing it when it
>>> reappeared
>>> and could consequently appreciate the thematic construction/variation in
>>> the work.
>>> Or again could it have been the 18th cent. version of the art of
>>> song-plugging!
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 12 Aug 2011, at 01:30, Dan Leeson wrote:
>>> There are two reasons why composers (particularly in Mozart's era) used
>>> repeats: The first reason is to be able to write a little music and get
>>> a
>>> lot of it.
>>> Effectively, it doubles the performance time without have to write
>>> additional material.
>>> The second reason is the much more important one. Players of the 18th
>>> century were performer/composers and ample
>>> opportunity was given to them to show their skill at instantaneous
>>> composition while performing. They were expected to improvise based on
>>> the
>>> written text provided by the composer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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