Klarinet Archive - Posting 000140.txt from 2011/06
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:44:31 -0400
Yes you're still a spring chicken, I'm 71 ... and studied for the Diploma
and MA in Music at the Open University between the ages of 65 and 70, so
yes, you have plenty of time and it can be done!
OK here's quick interval theory. A perfect interval is one whose upper note
matches a note in the major scale built on the lower note. That means
fourths, fifths and octaves. All other intervals formed between notes in a
major scale are called major intervals. If you reduce these intervals by a
semitone, perfect intervals become diminished, major intervals become minor.
If you reduce minor intervals by a semitone they become diminished. If you
increase major or perfect intervals by a semitone they become augmented.
Note that the name of an interval depends on its spelling. C to F# is an
augmented fourth; C to Gb is a diminished fifth. Count the number of letters
between the intervals, including the start and finish notes. It's that
simple!
I agree that a simpler, more logical system could have been designed. The
nomenclature has grown rather than been designed :). But this started in the
days when even a perfect fourth was thought of as a discord, and an
augmented fourth had the status of Voldemort (diabolus in musica).
Cheers, Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Gentry [mailto:peter.gentry@-----.uk]
Sent: 16 June 2011 14:16
To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
Nope that explains my befuddlement very concisely. You noticed my confusion
in transposing. I transposed the wrong way (-5 or +7 semitones instead of -7
or +5) and should have ended up in written Fmajor not Dmajor.
I have always struggled with music theory the (to me) strange idiosyncratic
definitions of perfect this and diminished that have no resonance. I think
in Mhz that I can understand conceptually. My brain is just hard wired to
resist the poetic in favour of the prosaic. I'll keep on struggling though
still only 70 there's time to learn yet!
Thanks for indulging my confusion.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Bowen [mailto:keith.bowen@-----.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:39 PM
> To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
>
> Peter,
>
> Not sure I totally understand your question, but here is my understanding
> of
> it.
>
> I use the Breitkopf & Haertel edition which I believe is as good as they
> get, though as the autograph is lost, there is no Urtext. It is also a
> good
> playing edition for basset horns or clarinets+bassoon.
>
> Div 1 is indeed in the key of C for three basset horns in F. The third
> part
> descends to _written_ C be,ow the bass clef. This sounds the concert F
> just
> below the bass clef. In other words, you need to transpose up a fourth,
> not
> down a fifth, when working out the sounding pitch of basset horn parts
> written in the bass clef. Maybe this is the problem?
>
> If you play these on clarinets as they are written, you need a basset
> clarinet for the third part, or just play the basset notes an octave
> higher.
> Then the whole thing will sound a fifth higher than originally written. If
> you then transpose it down a fifth to go to the "original" pitch. you will
> lose still more notes in the third part.
>
> There is, in my view, no great sense in insisting on the "original key"
> i.e.
> pitch, for arrangements, since pitch has varied by at least a fourth over
> the years in different places. I think it more important to play in the
> right local key for the actual instrument. That is, if Mozart wrote an F
> major scale for a basset horn, you should (if no other instruments are
> involved, of course) play an F major scale on the Bb instrument.
>
> So yes, if one insists on playing the Mozart concerto on a Bb clarinet, I
> would prefer the string parts transposed than have the clarinet play it in
> B
> major. That would have been decidedly illegal in Mozart's time, whereas
> scordatura tuning was certainly done (eg in the Sinfonia Concertante the
> viola should be cranked up a semitone ... it is effectively for viola in B
> and violin).
>
>
> I hope this at least brings you to a higher level of confusion :)
>
> Keith
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Gentry [mailto:peter.gentry@-----.uk]
> Sent: 16 June 2011 12:41
> To: klarinet list
> Subject: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
>
> I am slightly bedfuddled..
>
>
>
> The basset horn is a transposing instrument in F a written C would sound
> F.
>
>
>
> The scores I have stumbled over for the first Div are all in C but
> indicate
> Oboe or Bflat clarinet. The one recording I have is the basset horn score
> played on Bflat instruments. So these are not as originally intended but I
> notice that if they are transposed to a written D Major for Bflat
> clarinets
> then the third (bassoon) line is more suited to a Bflat bass (to low
> Eflat)
> as I cannot get to a low C..
>
>
>
> Is this a total heresy or does it make sense. After all the version in
> written C played on Bflat instruments is not original either.
>
>
>
> regards
> Peter Gentry
>
>
>
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