Klarinet Archive - Posting 000139.txt from 2011/06

From: "Peter Gentry" <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
Subj: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:35:04 -0400

Doh I still made a mistake.
Horn in F to Flute in C is -7 or +5
Horn in F to Clarinet in Bflat is -5 or +7

So the key for clarinets would be written G sounding concert F
And for flutes written F sounding concert F.

That must be correct this time!!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Gentry [mailto:peter.gentry@-----.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 2:16 PM
> To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
>
> Nope that explains my befuddlement very concisely. You noticed my
> confusion
> in transposing. I transposed the wrong way (-5 or +7 semitones instead of
> -7
> or +5) and should have ended up in written Fmajor not Dmajor.
>
> I have always struggled with music theory the (to me) strange
> idiosyncratic
> definitions of perfect this and diminished that have no resonance. I think
> in Mhz that I can understand conceptually. My brain is just hard wired to
> resist the poetic in favour of the prosaic. I'll keep on struggling though
> still only 70 there's time to learn yet!
>
> Thanks for indulging my confusion.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keith Bowen [mailto:keith.bowen@-----.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:39 PM
> > To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > Not sure I totally understand your question, but here is my
> understanding
> > of
> > it.
> >
> > I use the Breitkopf & Haertel edition which I believe is as good as they
> > get, though as the autograph is lost, there is no Urtext. It is also a
> > good
> > playing edition for basset horns or clarinets+bassoon.
> >
> > Div 1 is indeed in the key of C for three basset horns in F. The third
> > part
> > descends to _written_ C be,ow the bass clef. This sounds the concert F
> > just
> > below the bass clef. In other words, you need to transpose up a fourth,
> > not
> > down a fifth, when working out the sounding pitch of basset horn parts
> > written in the bass clef. Maybe this is the problem?
> >
> > If you play these on clarinets as they are written, you need a basset
> > clarinet for the third part, or just play the basset notes an octave
> > higher.
> > Then the whole thing will sound a fifth higher than originally written.
> If
> > you then transpose it down a fifth to go to the "original" pitch. you
> will
> > lose still more notes in the third part.
> >
> > There is, in my view, no great sense in insisting on the "original key"
> > i.e.
> > pitch, for arrangements, since pitch has varied by at least a fourth
> over
> > the years in different places. I think it more important to play in the
> > right local key for the actual instrument. That is, if Mozart wrote an F
> > major scale for a basset horn, you should (if no other instruments are
> > involved, of course) play an F major scale on the Bb instrument.
> >
> > So yes, if one insists on playing the Mozart concerto on a Bb clarinet,
> I
> > would prefer the string parts transposed than have the clarinet play it
> in
> > B
> > major. That would have been decidedly illegal in Mozart's time, whereas
> > scordatura tuning was certainly done (eg in the Sinfonia Concertante the
> > viola should be cranked up a semitone ... it is effectively for viola in
> B
> > and violin).
> >
> >
> > I hope this at least brings you to a higher level of confusion :)
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Gentry [mailto:peter.gentry@-----.uk]
> > Sent: 16 June 2011 12:41
> > To: klarinet list
> > Subject: [kl] WA Mozart K. Anh 229 Bassett Horn Trios
> >
> > I am slightly bedfuddled..
> >
> >
> >
> > The basset horn is a transposing instrument in F a written C would sound
> > F.
> >
> >
> >
> > The scores I have stumbled over for the first Div are all in C but
> > indicate
> > Oboe or Bflat clarinet. The one recording I have is the basset horn
> score
> > played on Bflat instruments. So these are not as originally intended but
> I
> > notice that if they are transposed to a written D Major for Bflat
> > clarinets
> > then the third (bassoon) line is more suited to a Bflat bass (to low
> > Eflat)
> > as I cannot get to a low C..
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this a total heresy or does it make sense. After all the version in
> > written C played on Bflat instruments is not original either.
> >
> >
> >
> > regards
> > Peter Gentry
> >
> >
> >
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