Klarinet Archive - Posting 000064.txt from 2011/06

From: Martin Marks <martymarks511@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Thoughts on the sax-bothering-my-thumb thing
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:39:30 -0400

The Brilharts, Runyons and Meyer mouthpieces were popular on altos in the
fifties. The Brilharts were short faced usually and the Meyers had medium
length facings.
These mouthpieces are still being used on modern and vintage horns. The
American tenor players just mentioned in addition to Selmer artists such as
Benny Carter, Paul Desmond and classical artist, Vincent Abato and so many
big band and studio players certainly knew their horns as well as the
French. Selmer was not pleased that many great players such as Johnny
Hodges(Bisher, we called them Byousher in N.Y., Cannonball Adderly(King),
Parker(usually Conn), Lester Young(Conn) used American horns and mouthpieces
made in N.Y. None of these mouthpieces had such short facings that the low
B on these early Mark V1's should have been a problem. I use them on modern
horns and have never never able to duplicate the early MarkV1 gurgling low
B(which was corrected with the addition of the plate in the bow. They
elongated the bell in later models just to humor the crazy Americans?
Incidently, I never said the early Mark V1's were out of tune
. It's my opinion that although the modern Selmers,
Custom Yamahas and Yanagisawas are based on the Mark V1, they are arguably
more in tune, better mechanically and easier for a person with smaller hands
to reach those pinky and palm keys. It's amazing that these players
sounded great on these vintage instruments, but these were the best they
had. If they were playing today most would be playing Japanese or Chinese
horns and we would never hear any difference. yet guys pay $6000 to $12000
for these looking for that vintage sound.
martinm

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:47 AM, corvo di bassetto <rab@-----.de> wrote:

> Kurt,
> always delightful to read your postings;
> The Americans who were told:
> Vous avez mal =E0 la t=EAte, would those be people like Ben Webster (Bala=
nce
> Action), Coleman Hawkins (Selmer and SML) or Don Byas (SML)? However mad
> they were, the sound they produced with their Otto Link MPs was certainly
> worth while.
>
> Which are the short faced MPs you refer to? On the clarinet I stick to the
> ultra-long 19th century or Austrian style facing (only more open); what
> would be a very long faced sax mouthpiece? The kind that Rascher and his
> disciples used (Buescher)? How about the old Links from the 30s & 40s,
> aren't they longer faced than, say, the more recent Selmer soloists? How
> about the Runyons (never played one), did they start the fashion of short
> facings?
>
> I have several 1950s Bueschers (tenor and alto) and I like them very much;
> also in terms of ergonomics and reliability. I am buying up Bueschers thr=
own
> out by crazy Americans and give then to my students. Sensible Americans l=
ike
> Johnny Hodges and Sigurd Rascher loved and kept using them. Why would they
> change such a well proven design? (As far as I know the early Bundys were
> pretty much the same as late Aristocrats, is that true?)=96Maybe because =
"the
> French" are a bit mal =E0 la t=EAte?
>
> Best regards
> danyel
>
>
> Am 09.06.2011 um 06:39 schrieb kurtheisig@-----.net:
>
> >
> > Marty,
> >
> > My 58,000 is flawlessly in tune.
> >
> > The French said of the Americans in those days "Vous avec mal a la tet!=
",
> and they were right.
> >
> > The problems were that we were playing wrong. We used short faced reeds
> of a popular name. We also used short faced mouthpieces and held the horns
> wrong.
> >
> > The French had no such problems.
> >
> > Once I started playing acoustically correctly, all those "problems" just
> vanished.
> >
> > Perhaps it was Selmer listening to the crazy Americans that resulted in
> the dismal faire offered today?
> >
> > Kurt
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Martin Marks <martymarks511@-----.com>
> >> Sent: Jun 8, 2011 8:29 PM
> >> To: The Klarinet Mailing List <klarinet@-----.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [kl] Thoughts on the sax-bothering-my-thumb thing
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:07 PM, <kurtheisig@-----.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The Mk VI Selmer was made from 1954 to 1975.
> >>>
> >>> Ralph Morgan, who was Selmer's historian and senior engineer put out
> the
> >>> most authoritative list with serial numbers. The lowest ones were
> 58,xxx and
> >>> the highest 243,xxx. There will, of course, be serial numbers outside
> of
> >>> those as Selmer famously did that.
> >>>
> >>> Though the Mark VI officially came out in 1954, Ralph, as southeastern
> >>> salesman was selling prototypes as early as 1952.
> >>>
> >>> Most collectors know of 3 different series within the MK VI. The "U"
> bow,
> >>> the "J" bow and a return to a "U" bow, often with a patch soldered in=
to
> the
> >>> top of the bow.
> >>> (This was to correct a non-existent problem).
> >>> No. It was a real problem. I owned two of the early(short bow) Mark
> V1
> >>> altos at different times. They had a tendency to gurgle on the low B.
> My
> >>> repairman soldered a plate in the bow which cured the problem. Selmer
> >>> started doing the same when enough players complained. These were
> serial #
> >>> 58000 horns.
> >>> martinm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: hns692@-----.com
> >>>> Sent: Jun 8, 2011 4:26 PM
> >>>> To: klarinet@-----.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [kl] Thoughts on the sax-bothering-my-thumb thing
> >>>>
> >>>> I have heard, too, that most of the student line saxes, somewhere
> after
> >>> the
> >>>> 60s, were re-engineered and the key structure made shorter to make it
> >>>> easier for students' small hands to play them. Anyone know anything
> about
> >>>> that? And, when were the Mark VIs made?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a 1914 Holtan and love it -- but it's miserable to play and
> >>> stresses
> >>>> my hands unbelievably. Outside of being a really good-sounding horn
> and
> >>>> well worth keeping (has lots of extra keys, too), it's still not easy
> to
> >>>> play. Would love a horn more compatible with my hand size.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any words of fact?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee Ann Hansen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 6/8/2011 6:02:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> >>>> davebow@-----.nz writes:
> >>>>
> >>>> Bundy is a pretty basic student instrument. Can be very uncomfortab=
le
> to
> >>>> play.
> >>>> A Yamaha YAS-23 is a much better instrument if you only want a
> student
> >>>> sax.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/06/2011, at 2:31 AM, Rachel Roessel wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I took a look this weekend. My thumbrest is a single non-adjustable
> >>>> piece of
> >>>>> metal that is soldered (I assume) to the body. The alto sax is a
> Bundy
> >>>> II,
> >>>>> serial number 762,936. Can anyone tell me about the Bundy II? I've
> >>> heard
> >>>> taht
> >>>>> it's a good student model, but other than that, I don't know much
> about
> >>>> it since
> >>>>> alto sax isn't my primary instrument.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rachel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Many sax thumb rests are adjustable. Does yours have a large screw
> >>>>> holding it on? You may be able to adjust it so that your hand is =
in
> >>>>> a better position.
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Klarinet mailing list
> >>>>> Klarinet@-----.com
> >>>>> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> >>>>> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Klarinet mailing list
> >>>> Klarinet@-----.com
> >>>> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> >>>> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Klarinet mailing list
> >>>> Klarinet@-----.com
> >>>> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> >>>> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Klarinet mailing list
> >>> Klarinet@-----.com
> >>> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> >>> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Klarinet mailing list
> >> Klarinet@-----.com
> >> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> >> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Klarinet mailing list
> > Klarinet@-----.com
> > To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> > http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.co <http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Klarinet mailing list
Klarinet@-----.com
To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com