Klarinet Archive - Posting 000188.txt from 2011/05

From: "Vann Turner" <vjoet@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Seeking CD that demonstrates suggested embellishments
Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:56:30 -0400

Hi Keith,

Yes, (in bar 74, K622) I can see how the vorschlag CDE to commence the trill
would work very well. Whether that is used, or an accented E vorschlag, I
think would depend on the amount of tension the artist wants to render the
trill resolving to tonic. More tension, the E, less tension the CDE. At
least to my ear. I'm beginning to trust my ear. For years I've been told my
phrasing is very fine, but I'm just now beginning to trust myself. Thanks
for your direction.

Oh, your article on ornamentation is an enjoyable read, and very
informative. I've read it once, but haven't digested it all yet. I
appreciate you making it available to us. Thanks!

Best wishes!
Vann Joe Turner

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
To: "'The Klarinet Mailing List'" <klarinet@-----.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Seeking CD that demonstrates suggested embellishments

> Vann,
>
> I've sent a copy of the paper to you and the others who have requested it.
> Thanks for your interest.
>
> The 'vorschlag' is essentially the one or more grace notes that may be
> used
> to introduce a trill.
>
> It would be presumptuous of me to lay down the law on any specific
> decoration in K622, especially since I think there are far too many
> authoritarian claims in this regard! What I can say is that your
> suggestion
> is consistent with my understanding. Looking at the harmony in that bar,
> it
> is driving towards a V-I (perfect) cadence in C major at the end of the
> bar
> and the trill. The first chord is b minor, first inversion, which is the
> VII
> chord in the harmony, giving a strong drive towards the cadence. The
> clarinet trills on D, which starts off as the third of the b minor chord,
> and ends up as the fifth of the dominant at the end of the bar. It makes
> sense to reflect this harmonic drive in the way you play the bar. So
> starting the trill on the upper note with slight emphasis (there's a
> vorschlag for you) does in fact give a 4-3 suspension, so this works with
> the harmonic progression and, as you says, heightens the drama and its
> resolution.
>
> I don't consider myself competent to perform K622 in public, at least the
> way I would like to hear it, but this is how I also play it in private.
> But
> there are other ways that one could justify equally, for example starting
> the trill with a C-D-E vorschlag then an accelerating trill on D. The
> choice
> of vorschlag, nachslag and of metrical or accelerating trill, depends on
> how
> you see that passage at the time of performance. And as Tony Pay is always
> emphasising, the aim is to bring out what is in Mozart's music rather than
> demonstrate one's virtuosity or scholarship!
>
> I think it is great that you are really thinking about the music rather
> than
> parroting recordings :).
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vann Turner [mailto:vjoet@-----.net]
> Sent: 27 May 2011 15:43
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [kl] Seeking CD that demonstrates suggested embellishments
>
> Keith,
>
> I'd love to get a copy of your paper on clarinet ornamentation. Please
> email
>
> it to me. Thanks!
>
>>From your and Ken's responses, I am learning a great deal, and it'll make
> me
> a better musician. I've printed both posts, and after thorough digestion,
> they'll go into my "keepers" binder. It is really refreshing to actually
> talk music, rather than hardware!
>
> Though I use trill termination in a grupetto very frequently, I am
> unfamiliar with a trill preparation (what you termed "vorschlag"). This is
> a
>
> new idea for me, and am intrigued by it. It's kinda like knowing the names
> of wild flowers: when you know what a flower or tree is called, it is
> easily
>
> recognized and adds richness in walking down a country lane. Not knowing a
> term for trill preparation, I haven't audibly noticed such.
>
> I know you're busy, Keith, and I don't want to take up too much of your
> time, but one further trill question in K622: In measure 74, although the
> trilled note is approached from below, my ear tells me to start it from
> the
> note above, in order to accent it and give it a flare (and terminate it
> with
>
> a turn). Would you agree?
>
> Best wishes!
> Vann Joe Turner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
> To: "'The Klarinet Mailing List'" <klarinet@-----.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Seeking CD that demonstrates suggested embellishments
>
>
>> Vann,
>>
>> The blanket is not a classical blanket; it is much more true for baroque
>> (though even then, not always). During the classical period, the norm for
>> the trill changed, from starting on the note above to starting on the
>> note.
>>
>> The trill was extremely important in the classical period; not only the
>> trill itself, but also the preparation (vorschlag) and termination
>> (nachschlag). There is even evidence that northern Germany had a more
>> metrical approach than southern Germany, Austria and France (where they
>> taught accelerating trills). And with most aspects of decoration and
>> performance style the rule is "it is done this way, unless it isn't".
>>
>> The treatises of Tuerk, CPE Bach and Quantz devote literally hundreds of
>> pages to trills. However, these are of limited value for classical since
>> they all essentially write about music in the baroque tradition. And
>> Tuerk
>> and Bach are specifically about keyboard and warn that wind is different.
>> The wind ornamentation tradition comes much more from singers. So don't
>> play
>> anything that you can't sing.
>>
>> I think that a useful distinction is between harmonic and melodic trills.
>> If
>> the upper note of a trill is part of a suspension, [e.g. a 4-3 suspension
>> with the local harmony, i.e. the upper note of the trill is a fourth
>> above
>> the tonic note and the principal note is a third] then the upper note is
>> part of the harmonic movement and should be the starting note. If not it
>> is
>> probably decorative. This is the basis for the rule that you quote, ie
>> use
>> the upper note when approached from above, the principal note when
>> approached from below. To find exceptions to this you need to look at the
>> score and analyse the harmonic progressions. Or use educated ears!
>>
>> I wrote a paper on clarinet ornamentation, derived from study of
>> contemporary clarinet instruction manuals, which I will email you or
>> anyone
>> else interested. A big tome on the subject is Clive Brown, Classical and
>> Romantic Performing Practice (Oxford).
>>
>> Another thing that emerges from the manuals, which we discussed on the
>> list
>> a few weeks ago, is that they are clear that the principal note should be
>> the stronger. So you have to find a fingering that allows this while
>> remaining well enough in tune. One often hears trills on modern
>> instruments
>> in which the upper note blares out due to its construction (Clarion G to
>> A
>> for example) and this has to be dealt with, for example by lifting the
>> finger only slightly for the trill. It's pretty clear from the manuals
>> that
>> a classical clarinettist would have spent weeks learning how to trill. In
>> modern pedagogy we spend about ten minutes.
>>
>> On the example you give from bar 70, I'd agree with you in approaching
>> from
>> below. But would not the dramatic effect be still more heightened,
>> sometimes, by ending the trill with a turn?
>>
>> Ken has argued why he would not embellish the second F-D. Dan has argued
>> why
>> he would. Both are arguments, based upon certain approaches to the music;
>> there is no right or wrong, and a very good rule is never to do it the
>> same
>> way twice. It's true that embellishments are not random and need to
>> respect
>> the harmonic and melodic structure, but nor are they fixed. Learning an
>> embellishment and doing it that way all the time, as if it was written in
>> the music, is almost certainly not stylistically correct. The most you
>> should learn, or pencil in, is the local key (which may not be obvious
>> from
>> the single part).
>>
>> Keith
>
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