Klarinet Archive - Posting 000213.txt from 2011/03

From: corvo di bassetto <rab@-----.de>
Subj: Re: [kl] Basset Horn Question
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:52:52 -0400

Hello Dan,

Are you addressing me or whom? I know you dislike my posts, I like and resp=
ect your's even though I don't share most of your opinions. I think this Au=
stralian woman Kathy was silly to refuse your advise. Unlike what you write=
about me it was, though patronising, appropriate, even kind. Still, I thin=
k your attitude towards me is rather rude.

Anyway, I am aware that "basset horn" is just a term. One that has been app=
lied to all kinds of things. The original basset horns had a "book", a bras=
s bell, were bent or featured a knee between the joints, a small bore and n=
ot more than 2 basset keys. They had hardly more than 5 regular keys and no=
rings, were made of box wood, some fruit wood (never grenadilla) and were =
sometimes even wound with leather. Later they often had "Liebesf=FC=DFe" (b=
ells like an english horn or downright globular). Am I correct so far? Afte=
r 1820 they became scarce. When Haeckel started making "retro" basset horns=
(I believe for Strauss) they were of an entirely different design. The Ins=
truments you talk about are Klos=E9 system. Whatever bore and mouthpieces t=
hey have, they are very different from any original basset horn I have seen=
. Different timber, different keywork, no book, no bend or knee but crooks =
and metal bells like modern bass clarinets or altos have. Most of the same =
applies to all modern (post 1860) German makers the instruments of whom I h=
ave encountered. Almost all have a far wider bore and larger mouthpieces th=
an the original basset horns. These in particular I consider alto clarinets=
with extended range. I appreciate if Fox (like Seggelke) offers a modern b=
asset horn with authentic bore (not poly cylindric? Are you sure?). For mod=
ern music, great, if you like that sound better.
Ever since I played on a Seggelke copy of a Lotz, all retro-basset horns ha=
ve lost their charms for me. You are of cause entitled to like "Freia" by S=
tockhausen (I hate it), as it is written specifically for a modern basset h=
orn. But to perform Mozart on a Fox basset horn I think is historically ina=
ccurate. It is not the instrument Mozart wrote for. I don't see the point. =
You don't play Bach on a Wurlitzer organ either.

Now prejudice is a serious accusation. Prejudice means preconceived, irrati=
onal and unjust ideas. My opinion is based on experience and study. I don't=
press it on anybody. I don't judge people by it. I would not call it scien=
tific. Neither would I apply that term on your contributions here. Sources =
and exact measurements would be required.
Keith Bowen writes scientific articles.

My point about writing for clarinet is based on almost 30 years of writing =
music and studying scores. I am profoundly dissatisfied with my own clarine=
t writing and even dispute Schoenbergs attitude towards it. To me it is a m=
agic thing (even though I am sure there must be scientific reasons behind i=
t). It shall not be profaned by practicality or lowered expectations. Some =
people bridge the gap by intuition an vast musical experience. Schubert's H=
irt auf dem Felsen is a rare example.
Strauss did some awful things, I don't like his treatment of any instrument=
. I think it is brutal. But I will not convince you even though you provide=
d a good example of the kind of mess Strauss created yourself. =

Would you compare Rimsky-Korsakow's clarinet writing to that of Brahms? Ser=
iously?

The last passage of your rant is so distorted I'd rather not comment on it.

Best regards anyway,
danyel

Am 22.03.2011 um 18:51 schrieb Dan Leeson:

> Danyel's note is a lot of opinion about the basset horn, but it is so =

> subjective that the information content has minimal value.
> =

> For example, you say that, "most modern basset horns are alto clarinets w=
ith =

> added range..." What's modern and how many are there? Until about 10 ye=
ars =

> ago, Selmer and Buffet made basset honrs of one type, and LeBlanc made =

> basset horns of another (and based on an alto clarinet bore and style). =

> Then Buffet changed its horn to be similar to that of the Le Blanc, and I =

> have no idea what Selmer did. The pair of Fox basset horns that Keith and=
I =

> owned (and which came from the same tree) were quite different. The Grma=
n =

> basset horns are very much different and having nothing to with alto =

> clarinets.
> =

> So the generalizations that you make about what the basset horn is, how i=
t =

> plays, and your preference for the alto clarinet are simply manifestation=
s =

> of a prejudice of one instrument for another, and do not represent =

> statements of fact. I don't mind such manifestations, except to the exte=
nt =

> that you offer them as if they were proven scientific facts, which they h=
ave =

> not been shown to be.
> =

> Then you branch off on another idea, one that suggests that if you don't =

> really know about writing for [clarients], then the effort to write for t=
hem =

> is futile. You say, "With the exception of people like Mozart, Weber, =

> Mendelssohn, Brahms who knew the clarinet intimately as played by their g=
ood =

> friends, the greatest clarinetists of the respective period, mostly anyth=
ing =

> written for clarinet is useless or unsatisfying at the least." This is =

> nonsense. Richard Strauss ' writing for clarinets contradicts this =

> statement and, as far as I am aware, he did not have any good friends who =

> were clarinetists. (Strauss had very few friends for that matter.) French =

> Horns maybe (because his father played that), but not clarinetists. And =
in =

> Electra he mixes the A insruiment with the B-flat instrument simutaneousl=
y, =

> with a pair basset horns, an E-flat clarinet, and even a C clarinet =

> insisting that the B-flat instrument not be substituted for it.
> =

> There are fistfulls of great clarinet parts written by composers who had =

> only passing knowledge of the instrument. Rimsky-Karsokov is such an =

> example.
> =

> Now I don't mind anyone sharing their opinion with all of us. That's goo=
d =

> to do. But using an opinion as a scientific stake in the ground is =

> deceptive, just as questionable as insisting that wooden clarinets sound =

> better than metal clarinets, or that the Buffet sounds better than a Selm=
er, =

> or that clarinet blow out, or all the many pieces of clutter that have cr=
ept =

> into the clarinet world and stick around to confuse young kids into think=
ing =

> tha these fairy tales are ture.
> =

> Dan Leeson
> =

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