Klarinet Archive - Posting 000072.txt from 2011/03

From: Joseph Fasel <jhfasel@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Trills
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 10:16:43 -0500

Ken,

I loved the baroque oboe joke. I've been learning baroque oboe for a
few months now, and yes, many of the trills have to be quite wide, not
to mention awkward.

Cheers,
--Joe

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Keith Bowen <keith.bowen@-----.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I thought that was a viola joke :)
>
> If the note is perceptibly flat then I agree, you need a sharper fingering
> and then shade it. The idea is to get a quieter upper note, not flatter,
> yes!
>
> Maybe the instructions were essentially to take this into account?
>
> An appoggiatura must certainly be emphasized; that's what the word means,
> and there should be a clear difference between four sixteenths and
> appog/eight/two sixteenths.
>
> I tremble to qualify Casals, but where I would agree totally is when the
> trill is harmonic, because then it starts on the upper note with an
> appoggiatura. I am not so sure about melodic trills. There I think the ru=
le
> should be more what a singer would do and I think there are cases where y=
ou
> would hear the trill, yes, but not emphasize it.
>
> I speak from the unbiased position of playing very little baroque music :=
-)
>
> Keith
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: K S [mailto:krsmav@-----.com]
> Sent: 11 March 2011 13:19
> To: Keith Bowen
> Subject: Re: Trills
>
> Keith -
>
> Thanks.
>
> I play a LOT of baroque and early classical music music these days, on
> recorder and 1-key flute.
>
> We may have to agree to disagree about this, but I do not shade the
> upper note, which makes it flat. =A0The treatises from this period say
> that if you have a choice of fingerings, play the interval wide, never
> narrow. =A0There are baroque flute trills that are theoretically a half
> step that must be played as nearly a full step. =A0Casals said in his
> master classes that an appoggiatura or a trill is an ornament that
> must be emphasized.
>
> Q: What's the difference between a seamstress and a baroque oboist?
> A: A seamstress tucks up the frills.
>
> Ken Shaw
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Keith Bowen <keith.bowen@-----.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> Yes that post is interesting. The method I prefer is to use a more shaded
>> fingering for the upper note. This may in effect be the same as your
> 'blip'
>> - not lifting the finger far enough for a full-sounding note, so the upp=
er
>> note sounds more quietly.
>>
>> It's also my experience that I've never seen this in a modern tutor nor
>> heard this mentioned in a master class (now Tony will correct me ...).
>> Supporting evidence that 'poor' notes were entirely acceptable in trills
> is
>> given by the table of fingerings in the old manuals. Some of them have
>> separate tables for scales and for trills; clearly there were notes
> thought
>> to be perfectly OK as the upper note of a trill that would not be accept=
ed
>> in a scale. Nowadays we use some of these keys in regular scales ... if =
my
>> memory serves correctly, clarion C# is one of these!
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: K S [mailto:krsmav@-----.com]
>> Sent: 10 March 2011 22:53
>> To: keith.bowen@-----.com
>> Subject: Trills
>>
>> Keith -
>>
>> I absolutely agree. =A0It bothers me to hear more of the upper note than
>> the lower. =A0I deliberately play trills slightly "unevenly," holding
>> the low note and blipping my finger up and down for the high note.
>>
>> I wrote about this on the Clarinet list at
>> <http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=3D20&i=3D757&t=3D7=
57>.
>> =A0Load the posting and search for DIGRESSION ON TRILLS.
>>
>> Ken Shaw
>>
>>
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>
>
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