Klarinet Archive - Posting 000069.txt from 2011/03

From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Trills
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:28:56 -0500

Ken,

I thought that was a viola joke :)

If the note is perceptibly flat then I agree, you need a sharper fingering
and then shade it. The idea is to get a quieter upper note, not flatter,
yes!

Maybe the instructions were essentially to take this into account?

An appoggiatura must certainly be emphasized; that's what the word means,
and there should be a clear difference between four sixteenths and
appog/eight/two sixteenths.

I tremble to qualify Casals, but where I would agree totally is when the
trill is harmonic, because then it starts on the upper note with an
appoggiatura. I am not so sure about melodic trills. There I think the rule
should be more what a singer would do and I think there are cases where you
would hear the trill, yes, but not emphasize it.

I speak from the unbiased position of playing very little baroque music :-)

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: K S [mailto:krsmav@-----.com] =

Sent: 11 March 2011 13:19
To: Keith Bowen
Subject: Re: Trills

Keith -

Thanks.

I play a LOT of baroque and early classical music music these days, on
recorder and 1-key flute.

We may have to agree to disagree about this, but I do not shade the
upper note, which makes it flat. The treatises from this period say
that if you have a choice of fingerings, play the interval wide, never
narrow. There are baroque flute trills that are theoretically a half
step that must be played as nearly a full step. Casals said in his
master classes that an appoggiatura or a trill is an ornament that
must be emphasized.

Q: What's the difference between a seamstress and a baroque oboist?
A: A seamstress tucks up the frills.

Ken Shaw

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Keith Bowen <keith.bowen@-----.com> wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> Yes that post is interesting. The method I prefer is to use a more shaded
> fingering for the upper note. This may in effect be the same as your
'blip'
> - not lifting the finger far enough for a full-sounding note, so the upper
> note sounds more quietly.
>
> It's also my experience that I've never seen this in a modern tutor nor
> heard this mentioned in a master class (now Tony will correct me ...).
> Supporting evidence that 'poor' notes were entirely acceptable in trills
is
> given by the table of fingerings in the old manuals. Some of them have
> separate tables for scales and for trills; clearly there were notes
thought
> to be perfectly OK as the upper note of a trill that would not be accepted
> in a scale. Nowadays we use some of these keys in regular scales ... if my
> memory serves correctly, clarion C# is one of these!
>
> Keith
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: K S [mailto:krsmav@-----.com]
> Sent: 10 March 2011 22:53
> To: keith.bowen@-----.com
> Subject: Trills
>
> Keith -
>
> I absolutely agree. =A0It bothers me to hear more of the upper note than
> the lower. =A0I deliberately play trills slightly "unevenly," holding
> the low note and blipping my finger up and down for the high note.
>
> I wrote about this on the Clarinet list at
> <http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=3D20&i=3D757&t=3D75=
7>.
> =A0Load the posting and search for DIGRESSION ON TRILLS.
>
> Ken Shaw
>
>
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