Klarinet Archive - Posting 000062.txt from 2011/03
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
Subj: [kl] FW: Mozart and contemporaries
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:33:19 -0500
Diego,
There are indeed some differences in style but those that I discovered were
regional variations. North German tending to teach metrical trills, whereas
French and outh German/Austrian taught accelerating trills. Of course it
comes from instruction manuals and treatises, there is very little from
composers. Except that there is a Mozart opera (Dan will know which) in
which a singer is singing something like 'and I can trill like this' and the
trill is written out on the word 'trilli', and it starts on the principal
note.
I suspect that the modernly-perceived Baroque 'rule' of always starting on
the upper note is not absolute but depends on the harmonic context; and that
if this context occurs in (at least early) classical, an upper-note start
would be expected. The context for an upper-note start would, I think, be a
descending melodic line with a 4-3 or 6-5 suspension on the upper note
(figured bass notation). In Baroque this was very common.
There is a huge amount (dozens of pages) on trills in the Baroque treatises
by Turk and CPE Bach, but one of them (Bach I think) cautions that the poor
old woodwind player does not have this body of convention to rely on and it
is done differently in the woowind. Though Quantz was a flutist, there's
evidence that he was really living in the baroque despite the relatively
late date of his treatise.
Singing manuals such as that by Martini are probably the most helpful.
Plenty of evidence that solo woodwind players should follow singing
conventions. And you are right about the singers' obstinacy, but I doubt if
Wagner or Liszt put up with it!
I am sure others can add more.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: Diego Casadei [mailto:casadei.diego@-----.com]
Sent: 10 March 2011 10:05
To: The Klarinet Mailing List
Cc: Keith Bowen
Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart and contemporaries
Many thanks. I'd like to get more details about composers. From 1800
to 1830 we find people who write more or less in a classical style while
others (the more famous ones) started being romantic. It would be
interesting to know the difference in trills, for example, between
contemporary composers. I guess that a good rule of thumb is "use
classical figures whenever the piece sounds classical" but I'm sure
experts can add much more to this :-)
BTW, in the field of opera, at least in Italy, singers continued to do
everything they liked for much longer time than this. There too we find
records of frictions between composers and singers :-)
Cheers,
Diego
Keith Bowen wrote:
> Diego,
>
>> From my own research on contemporary instruction manuals and composers'
> letters, I would say that none of the performance practices we have been
> talking about would be exclusively for Mozart. Indeed much of what is
> suggested about Mozart performance comes from evidence on the general
> conventions of the time.
>
> This would apply generally to classical-period composers, roughly
1750-1830.
> Of course, there were developments and changes during this period. One
that
> comes to mind immediately is that the trill changed from being
predominantly
> started on the upper note to starting on the principal note. This is also
a
> way of saying that the trill changed from being largely harmonic
> (emphasizing the suspension at the start of the note) to being largely
> melodic or decorative.
>
> Incidentally, an aspect of the melodic trill that is little known these
days
> is that the principal note should sound more predominantly than the upper
> note. It's interesting to find out how to do this.
>
> Another major trend over the period was against improvisation and
> embellishments. Romantic-period composers were characteristically against
> this, and there is plenty of evidence in which they fulminate against
> players not playing exactly what they have written but insisting on
putting
> in 'extraneous' decorations. Which in itself proves the earlier tradition.
A
> look at any scores from the late eighteenth century compared with mid
> nineteenth century shows the extraordinary growth of very detailed
markings
> (dynamics, articulation) in the score, as composers strove for their
> individual expression, rather than relying on the general performance
> practice of the era plus performers' elaborations.
>
> No doubt Dan and others can add more.
>
> Keith
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diego Casadei [mailto:casadei.diego@-----.com]
> Sent: 10 March 2011 07:42
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: [kl] Mozart and contemporaries
>
> Hello.
>
> I have a (naive) question on Mozart and contemporaries, for Dan and
> other experts. From several emails, I learned a lot -- thanks!!!! --
> about style and interpretation of Mozart's music. The question is, to
> what degree this applies exclusively to Mozart or can be considered
> general for his period? In addition, what other authors would
> reasonably benefit from a similar approach to the interpretation?
>
> Every composer (at least the most important ones) worked in some
> environment and brought something new. Hence it is interesting to know
> what aspect are important for the authors until Mozart and what other
> things are important from Mozart on.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Diego
>
--
Diego Casadei
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