Klarinet Archive - Posting 000136.txt from 2010/11
From: "Keith Bowen" <keith.bowen@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] RES: Orchestral Pitch
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:44:58 -0500
Martin
I would still maintain that it is very stupid! The reasons are as follows.
1. The overall pitch normally does change slightly during a performance,
maybe as instruments warm up, maybe as the temperature of the hall or
outside changes. Strings go sharp as temperature rises, wind goes flat.
Maybe they average, maybe one 'side' wins. But in any event it is
imperceptible to the audience as long as all the players try to stay in tune
with each other. Rather than listen to the oboe, the better technique is to
listen to the bass instruments as they are the fundamental of the chord. If
the oboe or anyone is tuning with the needle of the meter and not with their
ears, THEY will be out of tune.
2. Tuners usually show equal temperament; thus the needle will anyway only
be right at A and its octaves. Orchestras don't play equal temperament.
3. More subtly, a pitch depends on its position in a chord. Here's an
example to show, with two players with good ears. First they play a perfect
fifth, C to G, and tune it so that it sounds good, ie beatless. Then the
second player changes from G to B and again makes it beatless (by the second
player tuning his note) - an in-tune major seventh. Then the first player
changes to a G, being careful to play the same pitch as the second player
originally did. The second player now retunes his B to sound well in tune
(beatless) with the G. He will have to lower the pitch quite audibly.
The reason is that the tonality has changed; B is now the third of the
dominant chord rather than the seventh of the tonic, and the pitches at
which one gets beatless (in tune) chords have changed with the key. This is
of course another consequence of five octaves not equalling eight fifths.
When we play with string or wind instruments we are doing this sort of thing
all the time. The oboe a'=440 might start off as the seventh of a work in B
major. If the work eventually modulates to Bb she is now playing the third
of the dominant, and it will almost certainly be a different pitch.
See Eskelin's book for more details.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter1@-----.com]
Sent: 12 November 2010 16:21
To: The Klarinet Mailing List
Subject: Re: [kl] RES: Orchestral Pitch
On 12 Nov 2010, at 12:26, Keith Bowen wrote:
Claiming the whole orchestra was flat is as stupid as the first oboe
pointing to their tuner and saying that everyone else is out of tune.
Keith
If the Orchestra's tuning note is taken from the oboe, and the oboist is in
tune with his tuner I would maintain that there is nothing stupid in the
oboist's contention.
Martin
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