Klarinet Archive - Posting 000360.txt from 2010/09

From: Charles Levine <chardy2@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:47:46 -0400

When it was suggested to use on my trombone slide, I was warned not toget it
on anything with laquer or on my hands. Put it in my mouth? aaaargh
charlie

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Karl Krelove <karlkrelove@-----.net>wrote:

> Apparently, that's what Bill's shop does, and within his experience,
> nothing
> bad has happened. What's the basis/experience for your so strongly contrary
> advice?
>
> Karl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Levine [mailto:chardy2@-----.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:57 AM
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
>
> Muriatic acid on your mouthpiece? NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Jennifer Jones
> <helen.jennifer@-----.com>wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Bill Hausmann <bhausmann1@-----.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Muriatic acid is what we typically use for cleaning mouthpieces and
> > flushing
> > > brass instruments and cleaning woodwind keys before repadding. You can
> > > leave a mouthpiece in it for quite a long time without damage, as
> happens
> > > accidentally from time to time. I don't know the concentration myself.
> >
> > I don't believe that -Jennifer.
> >
> > > Bill Hausmann
> > >
> > > If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Jennifer Jones [mailto:helen.jennifer@-----.com]
> > >> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:13 AM
> > >> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> > >> Subject: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
> > >>
> > >> For the record:
> > >>
> > >> A ~1 hour soak in a 5% solution of room temperature (~78F) distilled
> > >> white vinegar did not remove the white/tan deposits and turned my
> > >> Selmer C85 mouthpiece green. In addition to turning the region below
> > >> the liquid green, fumes also turned the portion above the liquid line
> > >> green. The portion of the submerged facing also became paler. My
> > >> mouthpiece now has a vinegar induced "suntan". The cork was not
> > >> submerged.
> > >>
> > >> The region traditionally under the ligature did not turn colors nearly
> > >> as much as the rest (incl. the portion above the liquid line). This
> > >> and the fact that this mp has not been out in the sun much argues
> > >> against a purely sun-induced color change of mouthpieces. The storage
> > >> of the mouthpiece with the ligature in place probably restricts oxygen
> > >> exposure of the mouthpiece, such that the region under the ligature
> > >> does not receive as much exposure to oxygen and hence does not rot and
> > >> turn green to the extent that the exposed portions do. Vinegar must
> > >> either accelerate rotting of the deteriorated portion, leech materials
> > >> out or otherwise change its color.
> > >>
> > >> The mouthpiece was purchased in late 1998 or early 1999. It now
> > >> smells like vinegar and my old greened vulcanized rubber mouthpiece
> > >> that it replaced. There was no residual vinegar taste, but there was
> > >> a mild smell. I also washed the mp with soap and water after using
> > >> vinegar.
> > >>
> > >> Given that lime-away and CLR are stronger mixtures of acids, it does
> > >> not make sense to try them on the mouthpiece, as it will probably turn
> > >> greener.
> > >>
> > >> -Jennifer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On hard rubber degradation:
> > >> incl. continuing sulfur chemistry, oxidative degradation, as well as
> > >> catalytic effects of internal and external stresses, heat and light
> > >> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/12/000374.txt
> > >>
> > >> Post by Lelia Loban on a hard rubber clarinet that has relatively
> > >> untarnished silver keys:
> > >> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/11/000487.txt
> > >> It is generally understood that the sulfur in vulcanized rubber
> > >> tarnishes silver. Lelia questions the chemical differences between
> > >> hard and soft rubber. She has found that soft rubber cause a lot of
> > >> tarnish whereas hard rubber causes little or none, based upon silver
> > >> trimming on hard rubber pens and hard rubber sax and clarinet
> > >> mouthpieces with silver ligatures that do not have tarnish that
> > >> appears to be caused by the rubber. I think it may be a matter of the
> > >> extent of cross-linking.
> > >>
> > >> This post indicates that acids reverse the color change:
> > >> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2004/05/000519.txt
> > >> I argue that this is wrong, because my mouthpiece turned green when I
> > >> put it in acid. There is further argument that the reaction causing
> > >> the color change can be reversed. I argue that the reactions in
> > >> rotting rubber cannot be completely reversed because of oxygen induced
> > >> breakage of the carbon chains of the rubber molecules.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The searches conducted:
> > >> hard rubber sulfur mouthpiece
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> My post on mouthpiece cleaning with ingredients of lime away and CLR:
> > >> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000221.txt
> > >>
> > >> My post on vulcanized rubber deterioration with jumbled thoughts about
> > >> the mechanism:
> > >> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000114.txt
> > _______________________________________________
> > Klarinet mailing list
> > Klarinet@-----.com
> > To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> > http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
>
_______________________________________________
Klarinet mailing list
Klarinet@-----.com
To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com

   
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org