Klarinet Archive - Posting 000348.txt from 2010/09

From: Jennifer Jones <helen.jennifer@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:06:30 -0400

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Bill Hausmann <bhausmann1@-----.net> wr=
ote:
> Muriatic acid is what we typically use for cleaning mouthpieces and flush=
ing
> brass instruments and cleaning woodwind keys before repadding. =A0You can
> leave a mouthpiece in it for quite a long time without damage, as happens
> accidentally from time to time. =A0I don't know the concentration myself.

I don't believe that -Jennifer.

> Bill Hausmann
>
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jennifer Jones [mailto:helen.jennifer@-----.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:13 AM
>> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
>> Subject: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
>>
>> For the record:
>>
>> A ~1 hour soak in a 5% solution of room temperature (~78F) distilled
>> white vinegar did not remove the white/tan deposits and turned my
>> Selmer C85 mouthpiece green. =A0In addition to turning the region below
>> the liquid green, fumes also turned the portion above the liquid line
>> green. =A0The portion of the submerged facing also became paler. =A0My
>> mouthpiece now has a vinegar induced "suntan". =A0The cork was not
>> submerged.
>>
>> The region traditionally under the ligature did not turn colors nearly
>> as much as the rest (incl. the portion above the liquid line). =A0This
>> and the fact that this mp has not been out in the sun much argues
>> against a purely sun-induced color change of mouthpieces. =A0The storage
>> of the mouthpiece with the ligature in place probably restricts oxygen
>> exposure of the mouthpiece, such that the region under the ligature
>> does not receive as much exposure to oxygen and hence does not rot and
>> turn green to the extent that the exposed portions do. =A0Vinegar must
>> either accelerate rotting of the deteriorated portion, leech materials
>> out or otherwise change its color.
>>
>> The mouthpiece was purchased in late 1998 or early 1999. =A0It now
>> smells like vinegar and my old greened vulcanized rubber mouthpiece
>> that it replaced. =A0There was no residual vinegar taste, but there was
>> a mild smell. =A0I also washed the mp with soap and water after using
>> vinegar.
>>
>> Given that lime-away and CLR are stronger mixtures of acids, it does
>> not make sense to try them on the mouthpiece, as it will probably turn
>> greener.
>>
>> -Jennifer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On hard rubber degradation:
>> incl. continuing sulfur chemistry, oxidative degradation, as well as
>> catalytic effects of internal and external stresses, heat and light
>> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/12/000374.txt
>>
>> Post by Lelia Loban on a hard rubber clarinet that has relatively
>> untarnished silver keys:
>> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/11/000487.txt
>> It is generally understood that the sulfur in vulcanized rubber
>> tarnishes silver. =A0Lelia questions the chemical differences between
>> hard and soft rubber. =A0She has found that soft rubber cause a lot of
>> tarnish whereas hard rubber causes little or none, based upon silver
>> trimming on hard rubber pens and hard rubber sax and clarinet
>> mouthpieces with silver ligatures that do not have tarnish that
>> appears to be caused by the rubber. =A0I think it may be a matter of the
>> extent of cross-linking.
>>
>> This post indicates that acids reverse the color change:
>> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2004/05/000519.txt
>> I argue that this is wrong, because my mouthpiece turned green when I
>> put it in acid. =A0There is further argument that the reaction causing
>> the color change can be reversed. =A0I argue that the reactions in
>> rotting rubber cannot be completely reversed because of oxygen induced
>> breakage of the carbon chains of the rubber molecules.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The searches conducted:
>> hard rubber sulfur mouthpiece
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My post on mouthpiece cleaning with ingredients of lime away and CLR:
>> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000221.txt
>>
>> My post on vulcanized rubber deterioration with jumbled thoughts about
>> the mechanism:
>> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000114.txt
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