Klarinet Archive - Posting 000347.txt from 2010/09

From: "Bill Hausmann" <bhausmann1@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 01:48:00 -0400

Muriatic acid is what we typically use for cleaning mouthpieces and flushing
brass instruments and cleaning woodwind keys before repadding. You can
leave a mouthpiece in it for quite a long time without damage, as happens
accidentally from time to time. I don't know the concentration myself.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jennifer Jones [mailto:helen.jennifer@-----.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:13 AM
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: [kl] Vinegar turns mpc green
>
> For the record:
>
> A ~1 hour soak in a 5% solution of room temperature (~78F) distilled
> white vinegar did not remove the white/tan deposits and turned my
> Selmer C85 mouthpiece green. In addition to turning the region below
> the liquid green, fumes also turned the portion above the liquid line
> green. The portion of the submerged facing also became paler. My
> mouthpiece now has a vinegar induced "suntan". The cork was not
> submerged.
>
> The region traditionally under the ligature did not turn colors nearly
> as much as the rest (incl. the portion above the liquid line). This
> and the fact that this mp has not been out in the sun much argues
> against a purely sun-induced color change of mouthpieces. The storage
> of the mouthpiece with the ligature in place probably restricts oxygen
> exposure of the mouthpiece, such that the region under the ligature
> does not receive as much exposure to oxygen and hence does not rot and
> turn green to the extent that the exposed portions do. Vinegar must
> either accelerate rotting of the deteriorated portion, leech materials
> out or otherwise change its color.
>
> The mouthpiece was purchased in late 1998 or early 1999. It now
> smells like vinegar and my old greened vulcanized rubber mouthpiece
> that it replaced. There was no residual vinegar taste, but there was
> a mild smell. I also washed the mp with soap and water after using
> vinegar.
>
> Given that lime-away and CLR are stronger mixtures of acids, it does
> not make sense to try them on the mouthpiece, as it will probably turn
> greener.
>
> -Jennifer
>
>
>
>
> On hard rubber degradation:
> incl. continuing sulfur chemistry, oxidative degradation, as well as
> catalytic effects of internal and external stresses, heat and light
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/12/000374.txt
>
> Post by Lelia Loban on a hard rubber clarinet that has relatively
> untarnished silver keys:
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/11/000487.txt
> It is generally understood that the sulfur in vulcanized rubber
> tarnishes silver. Lelia questions the chemical differences between
> hard and soft rubber. She has found that soft rubber cause a lot of
> tarnish whereas hard rubber causes little or none, based upon silver
> trimming on hard rubber pens and hard rubber sax and clarinet
> mouthpieces with silver ligatures that do not have tarnish that
> appears to be caused by the rubber. I think it may be a matter of the
> extent of cross-linking.
>
> This post indicates that acids reverse the color change:
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2004/05/000519.txt
> I argue that this is wrong, because my mouthpiece turned green when I
> put it in acid. There is further argument that the reaction causing
> the color change can be reversed. I argue that the reactions in
> rotting rubber cannot be completely reversed because of oxygen induced
> breakage of the carbon chains of the rubber molecules.
>
>
>
>
> The searches conducted:
> hard rubber sulfur mouthpiece
>
>
>
>
> My post on mouthpiece cleaning with ingredients of lime away and CLR:
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000221.txt
>
> My post on vulcanized rubber deterioration with jumbled thoughts about
> the mechanism:
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2010/09/000114.txt
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