Klarinet Archive - Posting 000078.txt from 2010/09

From: Jennifer Jones <helen.jennifer@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Bax Summer Music
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:53:09 -0400

Would that I had learned my german better and that there were some
german and italian speakers that could weigh in on this debate!
Personally, I am quite content with slow and indolent. After all,
Samuel Barber was from the United States.

I wonder what indolent in spanish is. Babel fish says indolente...

Perhaps a compromise would lie in requiring directions in the
composers native language and an italian translation? Yet, I don't
think there is any point in making people write directions in a
language they don't know. Maybe the solution is to get people to live
elsewhere to learn another language? So all composers would be
required to live a couple years in Italy to learn the language and
connotations of the major musical words. Would Italy be able to
support the influx of visitors? The world is pretty crowded as it is,
especially in the warmer parts of the world. Plus there is an
economic factor that would exclude many promising composers. I would
have hate to have lost the adagio for strings for a requirement that
directions be written in italian. If one needed to save italian, I
suppose you could require translation, but it would be a stop-gap
measure that would probably strip a lot of connotations and thus the
richness of the language.

-Jennifer (thinking of worst case scenarios)

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Joseph Fasel <jhfasel@-----.com> wrote:
> Hi Joseph,
>
> In the case of this particular marking, you might convince me that
> Barber is justified in writing a direction in English, but I think
> not. =A0Let me explain where I'm coming from.
>
> Since at least as early as the fifteenth century, we have had a
> tradition in western music of Italian directions, and furthermore, the
> development of a standard musical vocabulary in that language. =A0Since
> the latter part of the nineteenth century, we've seen some abandonment
> of that tradition, for no reason better than silly nationalism. =A0So,
> for example in Schumann and Brahms and later (maybe earlier, as
> well--I'm not sure) we see directions like "m=E4=DFig bewegt". =A0The fir=
st
> time you see something like this, you wonder what it is; then the
> light dawns: =A0ah yes, "moderato con moto". =A0This sort of thing is a
> particularly egregious violation of a useful musical tradition, since
> the German adds nothing except possible confusion. =A0You can see the
> standard Italian term hiding behind the German. =A0Think of it, should,
> say, a Mandarin speaker need to learn five or more European languages
> in order to play western music?
>
> I would say that composers ought whenever possible to confine
> themselves to the common Italian musical vocabulary and when that is
> lacking still to stick with Italian. =A0Only a very strong expressive
> purpose justifies the use of another language. =A0Is Barbers "slow and
> indolent" such a case? =A0Perhaps, but I doubt it, since "indolent" is a
> latinate word whose cognates in Italian and other romance languages
> have the same meaning as in English. =A0I doubt that the English word
> carries a connotation that isn't present in Italian.
>
> Cheers,
> --Joe
>
> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Joseph Wakeling
> <joseph.wakeling@-----.net> wrote:
>> On 09/05/2010 04:08 AM, Joseph Fasel wrote:
>>> Yes, it's just delicious, isn't it? =A0The only thing is that it should
>>> be "lento e indolente". =A0Musical directions should be in Italian!
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> The language, as much as anything else, adds flavour and conveys to the
>> performer the feel that is desired. =A0Can you imagine, for example, that
>> Berg's "Langsames Walzer-tempo" would convey what Berg wanted so well if
>> it was translated into Italian?
>>
>> "Lento", "adagio", "allegro" -- these don't just have a literal Italian
>> meaning, they have a weight of cultural baggage on their shoulders.
>> It's great if that's the feel you're looking for. =A0Not so great if it's
>> not ...
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