Klarinet Archive - Posting 000429.txt from 2010/08

From: Jennifer Jones <helen.jennifer@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Cantabile
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:49:35 -0400

Nice. I guess I was looking for a reference, but

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Michael Whight
<michaelwhight@-----.uk> wrote:
> Hi Jennifer
>
> I guess you can call them whatever you like.

No. I like your words. I was just looking for a reference, so I
didn't have to pester you. Though it is often nicer talking like
this.

-Jennifer

>The basic principle for a sonata is that there is an exposition, a develop=
ment and a recapitulation. The material for the >movement is presented in t=
he exposition in 2 sections. The first section or first group as I call it =
is usually in the home key >and the second contrasted group in a key far aw=
ay from home. These contrasts form the basis for the discussion or argument=
>in the development where themes are chopped up, rearranged, put in differ=
ent harmonic contexts and so on. The >recapitulation re evaluates the openi=
ng material in the light of these discussions and there may be a coda to cl=
ose the >movement.
>
> Michael
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 29 Aug 2010, at 14:00, Jennifer Jones <helen.jennifer@-----.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Michael,
>>
>> Continuing a 10 day old conversation:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Michael Whight
>> <michaelwhight@-----.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19 Aug 2010, at 18:22, Jennifer Jones <helen.jennifer@-----.com> wro=
te:
>>>
>>>> Dear Michael,
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean "5th bar of the second group"? =A0On first reading,
>>>> that suggested the clarion D Eb F marked pp five bars after sotto voce
>>>> (marked B). =A0However, I can't figure out how "second group" would
>>>> apply to that.
>>>
>>> Yes that is the point I mean. I just use the term ' second group' to me=
an the second contrasted section in a sonata principle >movement. You may c=
all it the second subject.
>>
>> Could these subjects be called themes? =A0Where theme, refers to
>> something like different melodies. =A0This seems reasonable because the
>> first five bars of the sonata appear to be repeated three times with
>> varying levels of embellishment and expansion. =A0There is a bit
>> beginning piu p (separate spot from the other piu p's discussed.)
>>
>>>> =A0What appears to be a second group is marked piu p in
>>>> the reprise beginning with the Ab octave jump (marked I). =A0Since piu
>>>> means more, it seems that piu p would be equivalent to pp. =A0But I
>>>> don't know the idiosyncracies of these words or the idiosyncracies of
>>>> Brahms to feel certain.
>>>
>>> That for me would be the second group material in the recapitulation.
>>
>> This seems to be technical terminology that I am unfamiliar with.
>> Where does "group" come from? =A0Does this indicate a relation between
>> the theme at the beginning and the theme at the sotto voce. =A0"a second
>> contrasted section in a sonata principle movement" seems overly
>> specific. =A0I might be able to believe "a second contrasted section";
>> there is a different character between the Allegro amabile and the
>> sotto voce
>>
>> I have heard of inversion "(counterpoint) a variation of a melody or
>> part in which ascending intervals are replaced by descending intervals
>> and vice versa" =A0(wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn), but have not
>> taken any music theory, other than the introductory course which tells
>> you, for example, what melodic, harmonic and natural keys are. =A0My
>> course did not address inversions, which is clearly no what is
>> occuring here anyway.
>>
>>> Piu p is relative to whatever precedes it so can be anything. I
>>> use the Henle Urtext for Brahms but I don't recall a piu p marking in t=
he recap there. I'm in Shanghai this week so I can't look it up. >Hope this=
makes it clearer! Incidentally the start of this sonata can be problematic=
but I was given a good tip once. If you play from >the upbeat to the bar b=
efore the recap ( from the D) and go into the main theme you will probably =
want to make a diminuendo to the >start of the theme. This will give you a =
good start on the F. Imagine those bars at the start of the movement and it=
seems easier.
>>
>> A bit like the fifth bar to the piece, where the eighth note open G of
>> the preceding bar is slurred to the high clarion B. =A0Though obviously,
>> the clarion D to F interval is much smaller than the open G to high
>> clarion B.
>>
>>> Alternatively you can play to the words ' Are you happy with your mouth=
piece?' It's a silly trick but can work out ok.
>>
>> How about 'Shadow was a well loved cat, a clever cat, a cautious cat'?
>>
>> -Jennifer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why is it that I read Shadow with these words in mind:
>>
>> sarcastic
>> scathing
>> condescending
>> acerbic
>> scaredy
>> cautious
>>
>> And yet, find much affection for him?
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