Klarinet Archive - Posting 000083.txt from 2010/04
From: "Dan Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net> Subj: Re: [kl] K. 622 in G? Part 2 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:55:40 -0400
Martin, first I was not suggesting that you had said, "If Mozart had had a
contra..." I was voicing the argument in the abstract. And lots of people
do articulate that argument, though the proper response to it is that "If
Mozart had had a tenor saxophone..."
Tell me the detail of the story of the Mozart's original intention. I don't
know of a single scholar over the past 2 centuries (and a bit more) that
give sanctity to that argument.
Dan Leeson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Baxter" <martinbaxter1@-----.com>
To: "The Klarinet Mailing List" <klarinet@-----.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] K. 622 in G? Part 2
>
> On 24 Apr 2010, at 16:16, Dan Leeson wrote:
>
>>
>> Martin Baxter wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think that Bear is claiming this as evidence; but surely it is
>>> rumours like this that set people on looking for evidence either way.
>>> The
>>> version of the rumour that I heard was that another person contemporary
>>> with Mozart transcribed it with Mozart's agreement, but I don't offer
>>> this
>>> as evidence either, although it seems more possible than that Mozart
>>> did
>>> it himself. It seems like the story that Mozart originally intended to
>>> use Contrabassoon in the Gran Partita; the appearance of a part marked
>>> Contrafagott in Mozart's handwriting would be needed to settle it,
>>> although the score of the semi-mythical work by Michael Haydn (?) for 13
>>> wind instruments, if it really exists, might suggest that there is some
>>> likelihood of Mozart also originally wanting contrafagott also. However,
>>> as things are, I think we must agree that "Serenade for 13 wind" is a
>>> misnomer. But I cannot consider it actually proven.
>>> Martin
>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 04:02, Dan Leeson wrote:
>>
>> There is no story that "Mozart originally intended to use the
>> Contrabassoon
>> in the gran Partitta." It's a fantasy unsupported by any serious
>> evidence.
>> The very best that one could suggest along this line is that the first
>> edition of the work -- done in 1803 by the Bureau des Arts et d'Idustrie
>> in
>> Vienna -- had, on the title page, the words, "Contrabasso ou
>> contra-fagotto." And considering the source and circumstances of the
>> first
>> edition, it cannot be used to support that instrumentation.
>>
>> Further there is no likelihood that Mozart directly or indirectly
>> accepted
>> such an instrumentation. Directly, he specifies contrabasso in the
>> manuscript, and indirectly, the part calls for "pizzicato" and "arco,"
>> terms
>> that are foreign to the contra bassoon.
>>
>> Finally this: Mozart never wrote out instrumental parts. He had
>> professional copyists doing that, so "the appearance of a part marked
>> Contrafagott in Mozart's handwriting would be needed to settle it" is not
>> an
>> event that is ever likely to happen.
>>
>> I'm jumping on this because it is exactly how bad ideas start, and once
>> started they behave like a disease that is immune to antibiotics.
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>>
>> P.S. And to say that if Mozart had had a contrabassoon, he would have
>> used
>> one puts the author's words in Mozart's mouth.
>
>>
> Dan,
> I don't think I have ever said that "if Mozart had a contrabassoon he
> would have used it" so please don't put words in the author's mouth!!!
> In fact, as I am sure you know, the story is that Mozart's ORIGINAL
> intention, or possibly commission, before the work was even composed, was
> to use a contrabassoon so argument from the completed work, which was
> certainly intended for contrabass, does NOT refute the story. I am not a
> believer in the theory that Mozart intended contrabassoon, but none of the
> evidence seems to refute the original story; in fact, IF the Michael Haydn
> work does exist as well (and I have never seen it, but I have played a
> movement alleged to come from it) I have to accept the possibility.
> Martin
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