Klarinet Archive - Posting 000108.txt from 2010/02

From: "Mike Vaccaro" <mike@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Clarinet EQ
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:57:52 -0500

Diego.
What material is in the corner of the room. Is it dry wall, plaster, is
there a curtain near, is there carpet or hard wood or linolieum on the
floor? That's why I don't think inside works.
Mike Vaccaro
www.MikeVaccaro.Com

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From: "Diego Casadei" <casadei.diego@-----.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:01 AM
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet EQ

> Dear Mike,
>
> your suggestion looks exactly the opposite of what I do, which is to play
> near a corner of a room, to get all sound reflected immediately back and
> be able to overcome the overall reverberation from the room. I will try
> as soon as the weather will allow me to do so :-)
>
> Anyway, I'm sorry but there is no way for a player to listen to her own
> real sound. The reason is that she always gets a significant contribution
> from the sound conducted through the skull, which is impossible to get if
> you don't play the instrument by yourself (or if you are a mic).
>
> Best regards,
> Diego
>
>
> Mike Vaccaro wrote:
>> Just my 2c. If you really want to get an idea of the real sound you are
>> getting play outside. Every room has a different sound (as do
>> microphones and amps, etc etc.). Take the horn outside on a day that is
>> 72 degrees and play. Don't forget too that temperature enters into the
>> equation. Minimize the variables that effect the tone. Out doors is a
>> pretty good indicator of your dry un-altered sound
>>
>> Mike Vaccaro
>> www.MikeVaccaro.Com
>>
>>
>>
>> This e-mail may contain information that is privileged or confidential.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the e-mail and any
>> attachments and notify us immediately.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "THOMAS P" <Tski1128@-----.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:39 PM
>> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet EQ
>>
>>> Thanks Ben, I was going to write you privately with my questions but I
>>> thought if you responded via the list some other clarinetist would
>>> gain some insight. I've never had too much trouble when I record other
>>> musicians, bucause I can hear what they are sounding like as I place
>>> mics and mess with EQ and such. But the problem lies trying to figure
>>> out exactly "what do I sound like?" That age old question what is
>>> "real" and what is electronic. That's the point I would like to make
>>> to the list. No who you hear on a recording you're really not hearing
>>> "real" you're hearing an approximation of real.
>>>
>>> Many on this list have expressed loving the sound of Artie Shaw on
>>> Begin the Begine, Most likely RCA ribbon mics through all kind of Tube
>>> electronics and recorded to a type of vinyl that was most likely
>>> different that was available later. Did that "make" his tone? Probably
>>> not, it most likely took a "warm" timbre and enhanced the warmth. A
>>> recording of a great performance is not the real thing it's a
>>> recording of the real thing, It may or may not sound better than the
>>> actual performance.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been recording with with Old shure Ribbons 300s ( that have been
>>> rehabed by steve sank, these sounded much better than my AEA ribbons)
>>> through an AEA ribbon pre into an Apogee interface into mac pro and
>>> logic. I hadn't messed with 10-12k range and I've managed get the
>>> sound on tape that I hope is what I sound like in real life. My next
>>> thing is to try to get this sound with my video camera.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help. Tom Puwalski
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Benjamin Maas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Been meaning to respond here, but life and work has kept me busy...
>>>>
>>>> The answer to all of these questions are "it depends."
>>>>
>>>> There are no set EQs that will work for a clarinet- the sound you
>>>> have on
>>>> tape (figuratively speaking) is a result of a combination of factors
>>>> that
>>>> change on every recording made. These include, the mic position, the
>>>> microphone itself, the preamp and last but certainly not least, the
>>>> room it
>>>> is being played in (never mind the player issues such as reeds). Even
>>>> with
>>>> the same mic in the same room through the same preamp, you'll find
>>>> different
>>>> sounds. Why? The positioning is never exact and the sound of a room can
>>>> change with the relative humidy.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, here's a couple guidelines that may help you get
>>>> started.
>>>> A wide boost in the range of lets say 200 Hz to 350Hz will give a bit
>>>> warmer
>>>> sound. A cut in the 3KHz to 6KHz range will take off some of the
>>>> edge- but
>>>> be careful, too much of a cut there will make the sound rather dead and
>>>> lifeless. A shelf in the 10-12 KHz range will add "air" to the sound
>>>> and
>>>> open things up a bit without making it too bright sounding. A narrow
>>>> cut in
>>>> the range of 400-550 Hz will help tame a "boxy" sound. A cut in the
>>>> range
>>>> of perhaps 800Hz to 1.5 KHz will help tame a nasal sound.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond that, as I said, ever situation is different. What I usually
>>>> recommend to those trying to learn to EQ is to do drastic moves.
>>>> Raise or
>>>> lower a frequency by 15 or 20 dB. Go extreme and you'll hear very
>>>> clearly
>>>> what you're working with. As you sweep the frequency, you'll begin to
>>>> notice magic spots for given sounds that will really help you out. At
>>>> that
>>>> point, move the gain of the cut to only a couple dB and you should be
>>>> in
>>>> pretty good shape.
>>>>
>>>> As for ribbons vs. condensers... Apples and oranges. Both can be
>>>> good, but
>>>> both have massively different sounds. A ribbon will generally be a
>>>> bit more
>>>> mellow and take to EQ better. But, like all mics, there are quality
>>>> ones
>>>> and crappy ones. I recommend highly Royer, AEA and Coles. I also
>>>> recommend
>>>> Beyer, but not as much as the previously mentioned mics. I do not
>>>> recommend
>>>> the Chinese-made ribbons out there that appear under a slew of
>>>> different
>>>> names. Some have been modded out by replacing the ribbons,
>>>> transformers and
>>>> such and they can be ok. The stock ones are really not great, though,
>>>> IMO.
>>>> A good ribbon will be in the same price range as a good condenser. For
>>>> condensers, I recommend Schoeps, Sennheiser MKH8000 series or MKH40,
>>>> some of
>>>> the vintage Neumann and AKG mics, some Microtech Gefell, and such...
>>>> There
>>>> are plenty of good mics depending on what sort of sound you're
>>>> looking for,
>>>> but rarely do I find mics that I really love under about $1000 new.
>>>>
>>>> --Ben
>>>>
>>>> Benjamin Maas
>>>> Fifth Circle Audio
>>>> Long Beach, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Tom Puwalski [mailto:tski1128@-----.com]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:22 AM
>>>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>>> Subject: [kl] Clarinet EQ
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have any eq ideas on what seems to be "normal" for close
>>>>> miced clarinet? Have you noticed diffences between ribbon and
>>>>> condensor mics?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Tom Puwalski
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> --
>
> Diego Casadei, PhD.
> Physics Department, CERN
> New York University bld. 32, S-A19
> 4 Washington Place 1211 Geneve 23
> New York, NY 10003 Mailbox J28310
> USA Switzerland
> office: +1-212-998-7675 office: +41-22-767-6809
> mobile: +39-347-1460488 mobile: +41-76-213-5376
> http://cern.ch/casadei/ Diego.Casadei@-----.ch
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
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