Klarinet Archive - Posting 000106.txt from 2010/02
From: Diego Casadei <casadei.diego@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Clarinet EQ
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:01:03 -0500
Dear Mike,
your suggestion looks exactly the opposite of what I do, which is to
play near a corner of a room, to get all sound reflected immediately
back and be able to overcome the overall reverberation from the room. I
will try as soon as the weather will allow me to do so :-)
Anyway, I'm sorry but there is no way for a player to listen to her own
real sound. The reason is that she always gets a significant
contribution from the sound conducted through the skull, which is
impossible to get if you don't play the instrument by yourself (or if
you are a mic).
Best regards,
Diego
Mike Vaccaro wrote:
> Just my 2c. If you really want to get an idea of the real sound you are
> getting play outside. Every room has a different sound (as do
> microphones and amps, etc etc.). Take the horn outside on a day that is
> 72 degrees and play. Don't forget too that temperature enters into the
> equation. Minimize the variables that effect the tone. Out doors is a
> pretty good indicator of your dry un-altered sound
>
> Mike Vaccaro
> www.MikeVaccaro.Com
>
>
>
> This e-mail may contain information that is privileged or confidential.
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>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "THOMAS P" <Tski1128@-----.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:39 PM
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet EQ
>
>> Thanks Ben, I was going to write you privately with my questions but I
>> thought if you responded via the list some other clarinetist would
>> gain some insight. I've never had too much trouble when I record other
>> musicians, bucause I can hear what they are sounding like as I place
>> mics and mess with EQ and such. But the problem lies trying to figure
>> out exactly "what do I sound like?" That age old question what is
>> "real" and what is electronic. That's the point I would like to make
>> to the list. No who you hear on a recording you're really not hearing
>> "real" you're hearing an approximation of real.
>>
>> Many on this list have expressed loving the sound of Artie Shaw on
>> Begin the Begine, Most likely RCA ribbon mics through all kind of Tube
>> electronics and recorded to a type of vinyl that was most likely
>> different that was available later. Did that "make" his tone? Probably
>> not, it most likely took a "warm" timbre and enhanced the warmth. A
>> recording of a great performance is not the real thing it's a
>> recording of the real thing, It may or may not sound better than the
>> actual performance.
>>
>>
>> I've been recording with with Old shure Ribbons 300s ( that have been
>> rehabed by steve sank, these sounded much better than my AEA ribbons)
>> through an AEA ribbon pre into an Apogee interface into mac pro and
>> logic. I hadn't messed with 10-12k range and I've managed get the
>> sound on tape that I hope is what I sound like in real life. My next
>> thing is to try to get this sound with my video camera.
>>
>> Thanks for the help. Tom Puwalski
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Benjamin Maas wrote:
>>
>>> Been meaning to respond here, but life and work has kept me busy...
>>>
>>> The answer to all of these questions are "it depends."
>>>
>>> There are no set EQs that will work for a clarinet- the sound you
>>> have on
>>> tape (figuratively speaking) is a result of a combination of factors
>>> that
>>> change on every recording made. These include, the mic position, the
>>> microphone itself, the preamp and last but certainly not least, the
>>> room it
>>> is being played in (never mind the player issues such as reeds). Even
>>> with
>>> the same mic in the same room through the same preamp, you'll find
>>> different
>>> sounds. Why? The positioning is never exact and the sound of a room can
>>> change with the relative humidy.
>>>
>>> That being said, here's a couple guidelines that may help you get
>>> started.
>>> A wide boost in the range of lets say 200 Hz to 350Hz will give a bit
>>> warmer
>>> sound. A cut in the 3KHz to 6KHz range will take off some of the
>>> edge- but
>>> be careful, too much of a cut there will make the sound rather dead and
>>> lifeless. A shelf in the 10-12 KHz range will add "air" to the sound and
>>> open things up a bit without making it too bright sounding. A narrow
>>> cut in
>>> the range of 400-550 Hz will help tame a "boxy" sound. A cut in the
>>> range
>>> of perhaps 800Hz to 1.5 KHz will help tame a nasal sound.
>>>
>>> Beyond that, as I said, ever situation is different. What I usually
>>> recommend to those trying to learn to EQ is to do drastic moves.
>>> Raise or
>>> lower a frequency by 15 or 20 dB. Go extreme and you'll hear very
>>> clearly
>>> what you're working with. As you sweep the frequency, you'll begin to
>>> notice magic spots for given sounds that will really help you out. At
>>> that
>>> point, move the gain of the cut to only a couple dB and you should be in
>>> pretty good shape.
>>>
>>> As for ribbons vs. condensers... Apples and oranges. Both can be
>>> good, but
>>> both have massively different sounds. A ribbon will generally be a
>>> bit more
>>> mellow and take to EQ better. But, like all mics, there are quality ones
>>> and crappy ones. I recommend highly Royer, AEA and Coles. I also
>>> recommend
>>> Beyer, but not as much as the previously mentioned mics. I do not
>>> recommend
>>> the Chinese-made ribbons out there that appear under a slew of different
>>> names. Some have been modded out by replacing the ribbons,
>>> transformers and
>>> such and they can be ok. The stock ones are really not great, though,
>>> IMO.
>>> A good ribbon will be in the same price range as a good condenser. For
>>> condensers, I recommend Schoeps, Sennheiser MKH8000 series or MKH40,
>>> some of
>>> the vintage Neumann and AKG mics, some Microtech Gefell, and such...
>>> There
>>> are plenty of good mics depending on what sort of sound you're
>>> looking for,
>>> but rarely do I find mics that I really love under about $1000 new.
>>>
>>> --Ben
>>>
>>> Benjamin Maas
>>> Fifth Circle Audio
>>> Long Beach, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Tom Puwalski [mailto:tski1128@-----.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:22 AM
>>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>> Subject: [kl] Clarinet EQ
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any eq ideas on what seems to be "normal" for close
>>>> miced clarinet? Have you noticed diffences between ribbon and
>>>> condensor mics?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Tom Puwalski
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Diego Casadei, PhD.
Physics Department, CERN
New York University bld. 32, S-A19
4 Washington Place 1211 Geneve 23
New York, NY 10003 Mailbox J28310
USA Switzerland
office: +1-212-998-7675 office: +41-22-767-6809
mobile: +39-347-1460488 mobile: +41-76-213-5376
http://cern.ch/casadei/ Diego.Casadei@-----.ch
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