Klarinet Archive - Posting 000407.txt from 2009/02

From: clarni bass <clarnibass@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Clarinet Setup - Long
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:30:31 -0500

I'm not sure what you are trying to lure me into but I'll stay only on the subject of the ideas and not get personal like you.....

>> You say there is no advantage to making them by hand. This
>> is simply your opinion which you are entitled to have.

I never said that. Instead I was ASKING (as sopposed to SAYING), what is better about hand making the keys, if the result is the same. Consider what Keith wrote - it is possible to make a key mostly by machine, and then finish it by hand, to the exact same accuracy of an entirely hand made key. It is irelevant if the cutting tool was held by a human or not, as long as the result is the same. Are you claiming it's impossible to acheive the same accuracy by only finishing the key by hand?

(BTW it's not rare that I shape keys by hand mostly using a dental micromotor)

>> There is absolutely no end or side play in the screw
>> and the key moves as if on ball bearings.

Do they also do this for their bass clarinets? What happens when diemtions of the wood and keys change because of tempeture and humidity? Strange that they go through all the trouble of this, and then use only natural cork, which is squishy and for several linkaged can create all sorts of problems.

>> The springs are then cut from various gauges of spring wire,
>> hand fitted and hand blued in order to create the balanced key
>> action. They do not use blued needle springs as they are too
>> brittle and stiff in their opinion.

I agree with them that a lot of the available blue steel springs can have problems. I have spoken a lot with many people about springs, including a metalurgist who is expert of steel (also hobbyist clarinet player/repairer), and also some spring makers, etc.

There is absolutely no reason that a type of stainless steel can't be used for springs, and be just as good or better than GOOD blue steel springs. Actually, there are some makers of excellent stainless steel speings. The sepcific type of stainless steel is critical, so don't assume stainless steel = stainless steel (same as you referred to synthetic cork as just one thing, completely ignoring the many different properties that many different types have).

How about using nickel-titanium for springs? Have your makers considered that? Some people thought about this idea. AFAIK no one yet used this but it is an idea. This is what orthodontists sometimes use. And don't assume nickel-titanium = nickel titanium either. According to an orthodontist I spoke with there is a variety all with different properties (more/less springy, etc).

On another subject....

>> I do believe they make a living playing on their Wurlitzer's
>> full time. This would also be true of.... and Giora Feidman.

Anyone can believe in anything they want and obviously it's the opposite of knowing something. I'm staying away from beliefs in this list. Every time I've seen or met him he played a French Buffet clarinet.

And another different subject....

>> If I was playing professionally now, I would be playing
>> on a Buffet or a Backun by Leblanc because a French clarinet
>> system would be the standard and expected instrument if you
>> want to work.

I heard something similar to this from a local Philhamonic player. However this is only true if you are talking about playing professionally in the type of eviorment that is like this. Wanting/needing someone to use a specific type of clarinet can be from being closed minded, or for completely valid reasons. However there is a completely different type of professional playing where no one will tell you what instrument to play, and you can choose whatever you want. In this type of eviorment the company of your instrument will have zero effect on whether you play or not.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Tom.Henson@-----.com> wrote:

From: Tom.Henson@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] Clarinet Setup - Long
To: klarinet@-----.org
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 10:54 PM

Clarni Bass,

I guess you missed my previous post on this, so to answer the question
below, yes.

Everything about the keywork is made by hand. They take blanks which are
simply straight pieces of German silver and then fashion, bend, shape,
file, grind, solder and then test fit everything by hand on the clarinet
before they ever send them out to be plated. They are then hand fit
again for a final time when they do the final assembly of the clarinet.

The screws are cut to length from stainless rod stock, hand threaded and
then the slot cut into the end. The screws not only fit perfectly the
length of the tubing, but are hand lapped until the screw creates that
hydroscopic action with the inner wall of the tubing, There is
absolutely no end or side play in the screw and the key moves as if on
ball bearings.

The springs are then cut from various gauges of spring wire, hand fitted
and hand blued in order to create the balanced key action. They do not
use blued needle springs as they are too brittle and stiff in their
opinion.

Yes, it is very expensive and more so than mass made keys. However, have
you considered that mass produced keys may not fit my hand or someone
else's? This would be like buying a suit off of a rack in a department
store. You may get a very good fit, have a tailor work on it to make
some adjustments, but it is still a suit off the rack. While the suit
off the rack may fit fine 95% of the people who would buy it, what about
the other 5%?

You say there is no advantage to making them by hand. This is simply
your opinion which you are entitled to have.

While some firms that hand make keys have done this for a very long time
and it could be said that it is a tradition, it is not a dead tradition
in the sense that it has no purpose. My contact with these companies
showed me that they are very aware of the modern advances in clarinet
making, but simply choose to make them the way they do for a reason. I
have tried to give you and everything else what those reasons are.
Someone may think this is silly, but others may not. Understanding why
they do this at least helps a person to make their own decision if it
has any value "to them".

Leitner & Kraus actually uses machine made parts for the rings and then
solders them up and finishes them by hand. They told me they do this to
save money so they can offer their clarinets for less money than
Wurlitzer. It does produce a high quality keywork, but they are not as
strong as that made by Wurlitzer in my first hand experience since I own
clarinets from both firms. It also took me sending my Leitner & Kraus
clarinets back several times for keywork adjustments to make them better
fit my own hands. Even then, the keywork is still not up to the same
level as that of Wurlitzer in my experience. Is it good enough for 98%
of those playing on it, yes. But I am not in the 98% group.

Since I don't want to assume this, have you ever seen clarinet keys
being completely made by hand or had a clarinet maker fit them to your
hand? If so, have you asked them why they do this?

Have you ever had a chance to play on a clarinet for an extended period
of time that had hand made keys and fully make a subjective comparison,
say to a Buffet clarinet?

If not, then what are you basing your opinions on?

Tom Henson

>> That is why they make all of the keywork by hand.
>> Nothing is mass produced.

What does this mean anyway? Do they carve and bend the keys with hand
held tools? Today there is really no advantage to making everything by
hand, although I won't be surprised if it has a mystique that works on
some people. There is no reason a key that is mostly machine made, with
an accurate final fitting, should be less accurate than a totally hand
made key. However there is a good chance it will be less expensive and
easier to make this way.

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