Klarinet Archive - Posting 000060.txt from 2009/01

From: "Alexander Brash" <brash@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] It's all a Wind Up?
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:30:56 -0500

If you're suggesting this whole thread has been a troll, I assure you it's
not :) If people don't disagree passionately, what's the point? This stuff
matters to me.

On Mon, January 5, 2009 9:25 am, Matthew Lloyd wrote:
> Okay Alex. You win.
>
> You can now tell us that you've been winding us up. Very well too, I
> admit.
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Brash [mailto:brash@-----.edu]
> Sent: 05 January 2009 17:14
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>
> No one is moved to violent disorder by rap either, I'd argue - that's kind
> of a cop out no? The funny thing is, a lot of rap addresses this, and the
> power of music to communicate in general. For example:
>
> "They say music can alter moods and talk to you / but can it load a gun up
> and cock it too? / If that's true, the next time you assault a dude / tell
> the judge it was my fault, and I'll get sued"
>
> Yeah, I'll agree, to an "educated" mind at first glance that looks like
> lousy rhyming. To a *really* educated mind, you can see there's a lot more
> depth there than you might think. Example: Seamus Heany cited the above as
> one of his favorite verses, of any genre.
>
> There is so much humor to be had here...and while I'll get crucified for
> this, it can make me laugh the same way as Mozart does...at myself, the
> best way. It can hold up a mirror to you and get you to giggle like a kid,
> and that's great. Part of the way it does that is by appealing to our
> baser, cruder, emotions - like a child would. Mozart never forgot that
> poop is hilarious (and serious!). Maybe we shouldn't either.
>
> Another example you might just find offensive, but is actually very well
> constructed:
>
> "Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records. Well I do...so
> FUCK HIM, and FUCK YOU TOO"
>
> On level 1) he's just saying he has to curse to sell his music. On level
> 2) the VERY FORM in which he makes that statement, echoes the content of
> the statement itself. That is a *highly* sophisticated idea of form and
> function, and is mirrored in much more serious art. There's a lot going on
> here. He uses "cuss" in the first phrase, a meta-tag which is not only NOT
> CURSING, it's the POLITE way to even refer to cursing without being
> offensive. Then he demolishes it by telling the audience to fuck itself
> for no reason - going two levels down the chain, all of a sudden being
> pointlessly offensive....but what was the point he was trying to make in
> the first place? That he had to curse to sell records, and was willing to
> do it for that end in itself. Making the point about pointlessness and
> arbitrariness by doing something pointless and arbitrary. That's
> hysterical, in my opinion, and not "gangster."
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, January 5, 2009 7:44 am, Peter Gentry wrote:
>> Yep but that's all about looney religious nuts they are famous for
>> bloodthirsty mayhem. "In the name of their god" so that's OK then.
>>
>> regards
>> Peter Gentry
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Edward Escobar [mailto:elescobar@-----.com]
>> Sent: 05 January 2009 14:19
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>
>> Whether people have been moved or not, the threat of it happening has
>> existed...
>>
>> http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,439393,00.html
>>
>> On 2009/01/05, at 23:02, Peter Gentry wrote:
>>
>>> Now that really is silly. How many people are moved to violent
>>> disorder by
>>> Opera? Context is all.
>>> regards
>>> Peter Gentry
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter@-----.net]
>>> Sent: 04 January 2009 21:48
>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>>
>>> Such as many opera plots.
>>> Martin
>>> On 4 Jan 2009, at 16:53, Peter Gentry wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK I suppose you rap is not mine. I despise anything that glorifies
>>>> violence
>>>> disorder and illegal behaviour that is all. I will force myself to
>>>> stop
>>>> being silly now.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> Peter Gentry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: clarni bass [mailto:clarnibass@-----.com]
>>>> Sent: 04 January 2009 13:16
>>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>> Subject: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the right audience can receive the same serene
>>>>>> experience from the violent ravings of a rap star
>>>>>> (gangster) but it seems more likely they are looking
>>>>>> for the next fight or someone to mug or denigrate.
>>>>
>>>> You are generalizing again but it shows more than ever you just
>>>> don't know
>>>> much about rap, so I don't know how you can criticise it. One of
>>>> the most
>>>> (if not most) sucessful rap groups in my country is nothing like you
>>>> describe. Actually a lot of "serious" musicians, including
>>>> excellent and
>>>> professional classical, jazz musicians, etc. really like this rap
>>>> group. I
>>>> actually don't like MOST rap that I know but I still went to many
>>>> concerts
>>>> of this group. I don't like all the songs from this group but I
>>>> don't like
>>>> all the classical, jazz, rock, etc. etc. music too, even by the same
>>>> player/composer. So you can dislike any music you want but your
>>>> generalizations are very silly and I don't understand why you keep
>>>> making
>>>> them.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Peter Gentry <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Peter Gentry <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
>>>> Subject: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>> Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 1:43 PM
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Fay posted
>>>>
>>>> <<I'm a bald, over-middle-age curmudgeon, and don't much like or
>>>> listen to
>>>> eminem. He's an angry young man with too many tattoos for my
>>>> taste.>>
>>>>
>>>> Spot on Kevin, actually I am 67. I don't limit myself to Eminem -
>>>> all rap
>>>> black or white is puerile rubbish I rather listen to a Kazoo.
>>>>
>>>> I don't get as worked up as emails may suggest what I do resent is
>>>> the over
>>>> blowing of fashion, although I admit that many of the great artists
>>>> were
>>>> "fashionable" at one time or another, and others were not.
>>>>
>>>> And, since art cannot really be defined in absolute terms it would
>>>> seem
>>>> impossible rate it. And yet, we do, all the time.
>>>>
>>>> Is there something more than "I like it therefore it is art/of
>>>> value"?
>>>> Greater minds than mine have struggled with that one to no
>>>> conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> I like to think there is, when an audience leaves after carefully
>>>> listening
>>>> to a piece of music for two or three hours you can feel the
>>>> difference.
>>>> There can be a sort of collective serenity as they leave still
>>>> savouring the
>>>> experience or there may be a nervous disjointed babble after an
>>>> unsatisfactory experience.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the right audience can receive the same serene experience
>>>> from the
>>>> violent ravings of a rap star (gangster) but it seems more likely
>>>> they are
>>>> looking for the next fight or someone to mug or denigrate.
>>>>
>>>> I know violence and crass stupidity is an ever present part of life
>>>> but
>>>> don't see why I should be expected to appreciate it in music
>>>> especially as
>>>> a
>>>> monotonous diet. Once or twice just to sample all genres maybe but
>>>> not as my
>>>> main diet please nor as a highly rated part of my diet. Just a
>>>> rather stale
>>>> biscuit which highlights the appreciation of the delicious juicy main
>>>> course.
>>>>
>>>> Some people like sticking pins into themselves but is it art?
>>>>
>>>> 13:10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1872 - Release Date:
>>>> 03/01/2009
>>>> 14:14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1873 - Release Date:
>>> 04/01/2009
>>> 16:32
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1873 - Release Date:
>> 04/01/2009
>> 16:32
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------