Klarinet Archive - Posting 000058.txt from 2009/01

From: "Alexander Brash" <brash@-----.edu>
Subj: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:13:51 -0500

No one is moved to violent disorder by rap either, I'd argue - that's kind
of a cop out no? The funny thing is, a lot of rap addresses this, and the
power of music to communicate in general. For example:

"They say music can alter moods and talk to you / but can it load a gun up
and cock it too? / If that's true, the next time you assault a dude / tell
the judge it was my fault, and I'll get sued"

Yeah, I'll agree, to an "educated" mind at first glance that looks like
lousy rhyming. To a *really* educated mind, you can see there's a lot more
depth there than you might think. Example: Seamus Heany cited the above as
one of his favorite verses, of any genre.

There is so much humor to be had here...and while I'll get crucified for
this, it can make me laugh the same way as Mozart does...at myself, the
best way. It can hold up a mirror to you and get you to giggle like a kid,
and that's great. Part of the way it does that is by appealing to our
baser, cruder, emotions - like a child would. Mozart never forgot that
poop is hilarious (and serious!). Maybe we shouldn't either.

Another example you might just find offensive, but is actually very well
constructed:

"Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records. Well I do...so
FUCK HIM, and FUCK YOU TOO"

On level 1) he's just saying he has to curse to sell his music. On level
2) the VERY FORM in which he makes that statement, echoes the content of
the statement itself. That is a *highly* sophisticated idea of form and
function, and is mirrored in much more serious art. There's a lot going on
here. He uses "cuss" in the first phrase, a meta-tag which is not only NOT
CURSING, it's the POLITE way to even refer to cursing without being
offensive. Then he demolishes it by telling the audience to fuck itself
for no reason - going two levels down the chain, all of a sudden being
pointlessly offensive....but what was the point he was trying to make in
the first place? That he had to curse to sell records, and was willing to
do it for that end in itself. Making the point about pointlessness and
arbitrariness by doing something pointless and arbitrary. That's
hysterical, in my opinion, and not "gangster."

Alex

On Mon, January 5, 2009 7:44 am, Peter Gentry wrote:
> Yep but that's all about looney religious nuts they are famous for
> bloodthirsty mayhem. "In the name of their god" so that's OK then.
>
> regards
> Peter Gentry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edward Escobar [mailto:elescobar@-----.com]
> Sent: 05 January 2009 14:19
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>
> Whether people have been moved or not, the threat of it happening has
> existed...
>
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,439393,00.html
>
> On 2009/01/05, at 23:02, Peter Gentry wrote:
>
>> Now that really is silly. How many people are moved to violent
>> disorder by
>> Opera? Context is all.
>> regards
>> Peter Gentry
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter@-----.net]
>> Sent: 04 January 2009 21:48
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>
>> Such as many opera plots.
>> Martin
>> On 4 Jan 2009, at 16:53, Peter Gentry wrote:
>>
>>> OK I suppose you rap is not mine. I despise anything that glorifies
>>> violence
>>> disorder and illegal behaviour that is all. I will force myself to
>>> stop
>>> being silly now.
>>>
>>> regards
>>> Peter Gentry
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: clarni bass [mailto:clarnibass@-----.com]
>>> Sent: 04 January 2009 13:16
>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>> Subject: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>>
>>>>> Maybe the right audience can receive the same serene
>>>>> experience from the violent ravings of a rap star
>>>>> (gangster) but it seems more likely they are looking
>>>>> for the next fight or someone to mug or denigrate.
>>>
>>> You are generalizing again but it shows more than ever you just
>>> don't know
>>> much about rap, so I don't know how you can criticise it. One of
>>> the most
>>> (if not most) sucessful rap groups in my country is nothing like you
>>> describe. Actually a lot of "serious" musicians, including
>>> excellent and
>>> professional classical, jazz musicians, etc. really like this rap
>>> group. I
>>> actually don't like MOST rap that I know but I still went to many
>>> concerts
>>> of this group. I don't like all the songs from this group but I
>>> don't like
>>> all the classical, jazz, rock, etc. etc. music too, even by the same
>>> player/composer. So you can dislike any music you want but your
>>> generalizations are very silly and I don't understand why you keep
>>> making
>>> them.....
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Peter Gentry <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Peter Gentry <peter.gentry@-----.uk>
>>> Subject: RE: [kl] Re: If Mozart Were Alive Today...
>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>> Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 1:43 PM
>>>
>>> Kevin Fay posted
>>>
>>> <<I'm a bald, over-middle-age curmudgeon, and don't much like or
>>> listen to
>>> eminem. He's an angry young man with too many tattoos for my
>>> taste.>>
>>>
>>> Spot on Kevin, actually I am 67. I don't limit myself to Eminem -
>>> all rap
>>> black or white is puerile rubbish I rather listen to a Kazoo.
>>>
>>> I don't get as worked up as emails may suggest what I do resent is
>>> the over
>>> blowing of fashion, although I admit that many of the great artists
>>> were
>>> "fashionable" at one time or another, and others were not.
>>>
>>> And, since art cannot really be defined in absolute terms it would
>>> seem
>>> impossible rate it. And yet, we do, all the time.
>>>
>>> Is there something more than "I like it therefore it is art/of
>>> value"?
>>> Greater minds than mine have struggled with that one to no
>>> conclusion.
>>>
>>> I like to think there is, when an audience leaves after carefully
>>> listening
>>> to a piece of music for two or three hours you can feel the
>>> difference.
>>> There can be a sort of collective serenity as they leave still
>>> savouring the
>>> experience or there may be a nervous disjointed babble after an
>>> unsatisfactory experience.
>>>
>>> Maybe the right audience can receive the same serene experience
>>> from the
>>> violent ravings of a rap star (gangster) but it seems more likely
>>> they are
>>> looking for the next fight or someone to mug or denigrate.
>>>
>>> I know violence and crass stupidity is an ever present part of life
>>> but
>>> don't see why I should be expected to appreciate it in music
>>> especially as
>>> a
>>> monotonous diet. Once or twice just to sample all genres maybe but
>>> not as my
>>> main diet please nor as a highly rated part of my diet. Just a
>>> rather stale
>>> biscuit which highlights the appreciation of the delicious juicy main
>>> course.
>>>
>>> Some people like sticking pins into themselves but is it art?
>>>
>>> 13:10
>>>
>>>
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>>
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