Klarinet Archive - Posting 000174.txt from 2008/12

From: Alexander Brash <brash@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:35:04 -0500

hahaha :) a good point

On Dec 30, 2008, at 6:31 AM, Keith wrote:

> Alexander
>
> I think sentences to sonorities is a very difficult step. There have
> been
> many attempts, as you probably know, to relate musical meaning to
> linguistic
> meaning, but none seem convincing. Kivy and Ingarden are both quite
> good on
> this. A neat example (Kivy I think) is that it is common in music to
> repeat
> sections such as the exposition, minuets etc. This has almost no
> conceivable
> function in language, except, possibly, in politicians' speeches!
>
> Keith
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: klarinet-return-94882-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org
> [mailto:klarinet-return-94882-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Alexander Brash
> Sent: 30 December 2008 11:04
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
>
>
> I was toying with the idea of Godelian incompleteness for music
> theory. Something like this.
>
> G = "G is not a decipherable sonority under theory T"
>
> Naturally you'd need a superb definition of "decipherable" - and you'd
> need a translation from sentences to sonorities...that part is
> probably a bit easier.
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Keith wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I did read most of those and you can tell this was not my
>> favourite
>> topic in the musicology MA course that I'm doing! My thought was
>> that it had
>> as much relevance to a practicing musician as philosophy of science
>> had to
>> my career as a scientist. Not quite zero, but barely on the radar.
>>
>> I think the biggest surprise was to find out what a flimsy thing the
>> humanities' scholars mean by the word 'theory'. There seems to be no
>> conception of the scientific idea of a theory being a construct that
>> summarises available knowledge, is empirically testable and is
>> discarded
>> when inadequate. A humanities theory appears to be just someone's
>> pet idea
>> and a vehicle for rabid opinionated argument! <stir>.
>>
>> Writings on the issues surrounding 'historically informed
>> performance', on
>> the other hand, hold immense interest.
>>
>> All is well thanks, hope it is so with you. Happy New Year!
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: klarinet-return-94860-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org
>> [mailto:klarinet-return-94860-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Forest Aten
>> Sent: 29 December 2008 19:54
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: RE: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Keith [mailto:bowenk@-----.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:28 PM
>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>> Subject: RE: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
>>>
>>> You won't thank me if you read them all!
>>>
>>> Keith :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> LOL....Yep...that's a lot of reading.
>>
>> The next topic...."if a tree falls in the woods......"
>>
>> Hope all is well Keith.
>>
>> Forest
>>
>>
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