Klarinet Archive - Posting 000173.txt from 2008/12

From: "Keith" <bowenk@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:31:04 -0500

Alexander

I think sentences to sonorities is a very difficult step. There have been
many attempts, as you probably know, to relate musical meaning to linguistic
meaning, but none seem convincing. Kivy and Ingarden are both quite good on
this. A neat example (Kivy I think) is that it is common in music to repeat
sections such as the exposition, minuets etc. This has almost no conceivable
function in language, except, possibly, in politicians' speeches!

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: klarinet-return-94882-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org
[mailto:klarinet-return-94882-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org] On Behalf
Of Alexander Brash
Sent: 30 December 2008 11:04
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning

I was toying with the idea of Godelian incompleteness for music
theory. Something like this.

G = "G is not a decipherable sonority under theory T"

Naturally you'd need a superb definition of "decipherable" - and you'd
need a translation from sentences to sonorities...that part is
probably a bit easier.

On Dec 30, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Keith wrote:

> Yeah, I did read most of those and you can tell this was not my
> favourite
> topic in the musicology MA course that I'm doing! My thought was
> that it had
> as much relevance to a practicing musician as philosophy of science
> had to
> my career as a scientist. Not quite zero, but barely on the radar.
>
> I think the biggest surprise was to find out what a flimsy thing the
> humanities' scholars mean by the word 'theory'. There seems to be no
> conception of the scientific idea of a theory being a construct that
> summarises available knowledge, is empirically testable and is
> discarded
> when inadequate. A humanities theory appears to be just someone's
> pet idea
> and a vehicle for rabid opinionated argument! <stir>.
>
> Writings on the issues surrounding 'historically informed
> performance', on
> the other hand, hold immense interest.
>
> All is well thanks, hope it is so with you. Happy New Year!
>
> Keith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: klarinet-return-94860-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org
> [mailto:klarinet-return-94860-bowenk=compuserve.com@-----.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Forest Aten
> Sent: 29 December 2008 19:54
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Keith [mailto:bowenk@-----.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:28 PM
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: RE: [kl] Beethoven Nine and Meaning
>>
>> You won't thank me if you read them all!
>>
>> Keith :-)
>>
>>
>
>
> LOL....Yep...that's a lot of reading.
>
> The next topic...."if a tree falls in the woods......"
>
> Hope all is well Keith.
>
> Forest
>
>
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