Klarinet Archive - Posting 000295.txt from 2008/11

From: "Michael" <michael@-----.us>
Subj: [kl] C vs Eb - Low C in Sousa Marches
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:55:35 -0500

Dan suggested "Try contacting Keith Brion."
I did and Mr. Brion did not know the answer but kindly forwarded the query on
to the current bass clarinet player of the New Sousa Band who in turn provided
a very detailed response to the question about low C in Sousa marches.

A great thanks to all for their generosity of time in sharing knowledge.
FWIW: http://www.newsousaband.com/

The full exchange of emails follows in reverse order. Scroll to the bottom
and work your way up if you wish to keep the sequence.

------------------------------ Original Message ------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [kl] C vs Eb Bass Clarinet]
From: "Les Thimmig"
To: "Keith Brion"
Cc: "Michael"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi. We are pretty safe in assuming that any Sousa bass clarinet part
that goes to low C was fashioned by someone else at a later date. At
the time of Sousa's death (1932), the range of the instrument was down
to low E. It was right at this time that the new innovation, a model
that went down to E-flat, was first introduced. In several of the
marches (Sousa's original version), I've noticed that he obviously
would have had a line go to the E-flat, if only the instrument had one.
I can't recall which these were, but I always utilized the note when I
played them. Any 1930's instrument with a low C was added after the
fact. There are several examples of the great Philadelphia craftsman
Hans Moennig building such models for players in the major orchestras.
My friend Bill Helmers (Milwaukee Symphony) has a 1934 Buffet that was
used for many years in the Philadelphia Orchestra. It was built to
E-flat, and has a rather ingenious low C extension (detachable) crafted
by Moennig. At the time that I selected my LeBlanc Double-L model in
1962, low C was still considered a new-fangled idea, and most of the
established players thought I was nuts for getting one. It's been
established over the years that I am indeed nuts, but not because of
the instrument, which I'm still proudly playing.

Does that help?

On Nov 20, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Keith Brion wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> Very interesting question.
>
> Sadly I can't think of which march it might be but I'm sure Dan Leeson
> is correct...he usually is!
>
> Our current bass clarinetist is Les Thimmig from University of
> Wisconsin faculty. I'll ship this one on to Les to see if he
> remembers which march(s) might apply.
>
> Sousa sometimes used a pair of bass clarinet players..so perhaps at
> least one of them had the extra keys. From time to time Sousa would
> write something special for various players so the thought is
> definitely credible.
>
> With kind regards, Keith Brion
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 1:08 PM, Michael wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr. Brion,
>>
>> I asked a question of the Klarinet list about potential regrets if
>> one were to
>> purchase a bass clarinet that went down to Eb instead of C.
>>
>> This sparked a discussion (see below) about the prevalence of pieces
>> that
>> required the lower register available on the C instrument. Dan
>> Leeson recalls
>> Sousa marches going that low, but not the details.
>>
>> Would you happen to know if this is the case? If not, would you be
>> so kind as
>> to forward this information request to the New Sousa Band's bass
>> clarinet
>> player?
>>
>> Michael Rasmussen
>> Amateur in Portland, Oregon
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------ Original Message
>> ------------------------------
>> Subject: Re: [kl] C vs Eb Bass Clarinet
>> From: "Dan Leeson"
>> Date: Thu, November 20, 2008 09:51
>> To: klarinet woodwind.org
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>> As for the bass clarinet low C in a Sousa march, I was the bass
>> clarinetist
>> for the New Sousa Band under Keith Brion for some time. During that
>> time I
>> saw and played a march with the low C, but the title has gone from my
>> head.
>> In going over the repertoire of what Brion did with the band, there
>> were a
>> few long suites written or arranged by Sousa. There were examples of
>> both
>> types. Perhaps it was in one of the suites that the low C came along.
>> It was
>> some time ago.
>>
>> Try contacting Keith Brion. I believe he has a website. I have no
>> idea if he
>> is a responder to questions of this nature.
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Matt Hanson"
>> To: klarinet woodwind.org
>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [kl] C vs Eb Bass Clarinet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The arguement toward a low C bass is undeniable as these notes are
>> being
>> used more and more in new literature and in transcriptions of old,
>> often
>> even in a community band setting.
>>
>> Jacob is, however, correct. I know several who prefer the timbre of
>> bass
>> clarinet to low Eb. Personally, I like not having to worry about the
>> sharp
>> long B and other characteristics associated with a low C bass, as I
>> find the
>> low end on most nice low Eb basses to be more colorful than their low
>> C
>> counterparts which can seem somewhat thin and lacking by comparison.
>> Don't
>> get me wrong -- I own both Eb and C French basses, but not everyone
>> is able.
>> My low C bass is great, but my low Eb bass sounds better and is
>> simply more
>> fun to play. Since I'm not getting paid to play it these days, unless
>> I need
>> those notes, the choice (for me) is clear. If someone is debating the
>> purchase, it is ultimately up to them to decide whether or not the
>> additional three notes can be justified for their situation, whether
>> it be
>> financial, playing environment, or whatever. Again, a low C bass is
>> becoming
>> more and more necessary.
>>
>> Just a curiosity, though... Having thought I'd played them all, I am
>> eager
>> to learn which Sousa March has a low C for bass clarinet and if it is
>> an
>> arrangement (possibly orchestral?) by someone after Sousa's time, as
>> he died
>> in 1932. The only low C instruments I am aware of existing at that
>> time were
>> German or Austrian horns which are still to this day rather uncommon
>> in the
>> USA (again, one of the too many that I own). If it was indeed a
>> transcription, then that probably helps support the statement in my
>> first
>> sentence. And yes, I am aware that Sousa was part German. :-)
>>
>> Matthew Hanson
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There are five reasons why:
>>>
>>> 1. The literature calls for it. I found low C's in
>>> Sousa Marches.

--
Michael Rasmussen
http://www.jamhome.us/
Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity

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