Klarinet Archive - Posting 000099.txt from 2008/11

From: "thomaswinds" <thomaswinds@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] After Drucker
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:44:34 -0500

>>> One major reason orchestras do not reaudition players every 15
> years is because if they did, no player would ever be able to make
> money playing for a living. All the orchestras would do is hire
> kids and pay them base salary, they would pretty much all be
> temps. The AFM recognizes this, and thank Heaven it's still one
> of the strongest unions in the country.

False. Are you suggesting that you need greater than 15 years at one
of those organizations to start making decent pay? Starting at NYPhil
was over a hundred last I checked?<<

False? Your proof, sir?

Yeah, I would say 15 years is about right. You need to look at salary
scales. $100K in NYC, while good for a player, would not go to someone just
off the boat - and for someone with experience, is really not that great of
a salary. Can't live in town on that...

> Don't believe me? It's already happened, it's what schools do now.
> Teachers unions are getting weaker and weaker. New grads have all
> the advantages, and older, more experienced teachers aren't hired
> because the schools would have to pay them more. It's taking
> longer to get tenure, too.

I don't think this is actually true - I need to see some report on
this, anecdotal evidence is worthless. <<

Yes, it is true. All you will EVER get is anecdotal evidence, that's a big
Duh. You won't see reports on this, what school district do you know that
would leave itself WIDE open to age discrimination suits? Although I must
say that our **school board** has told the administrators to hire new grads
over experienced teachers. THAT is in the minutes of several board
meetings. Whether or not the district took their advice is, of course,
relative, and easy enough for them to excuse.

>>In my experience, for example, as a public school student, teachers
>>unions were a travesty of life, who kept around terrible old teachers who
>>actively hurt student learning, and prevented superior teachers from being
>>hired.<<

Your experience as a student was that of someone immature, much less not
that of someone who was an employee of a district, or trained in education
of any sort.

>>This is actually true in my experience, I'm just not sure it's a bad
thing.<<

Of course it's bad. What GOOD teacher do you know that would work for no
benefits, part time? What earthly reason would a GOOD teacher have to
invest themselves in any such university, much less one that would
disrespect its own profession, all for the sake of business?

>>Is your argument seriously that after a 15 year stint in the New York
Philharmonic, the only students you could get would be kids who
wouldn't practice? That seems barely tenable on its face.<<

Put it this way. Using your own argument back at ya, if you've been there
15 years, and you get the boot, who would want to study with ya? You're old
and lacking, the new guy would be much better, right?

>>Again, since I have no stake in an orchestral job to earn a decent
living <<

Then why do you even care? Or are you just a troll?

Lynn

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