Klarinet Archive - Posting 000068.txt from 2008/11

From: Alexander Brash <brash@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] After Drucker
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:03:11 -0500

> One major reason orchestras do not reaudition players every 15
> years is because if they did, no player would ever be able to make
> money playing for a living. All the orchestras would do is hire
> kids and pay them base salary, they would pretty much all be
> temps. The AFM recognizes this, and thank Heaven it's still one
> of the strongest unions in the country.

False. Are you suggesting that you need greater than 15 years at one
of those organizations to start making decent pay? Starting at NYPhil
was over a hundred last I checked?

> Don't believe me? It's already happened, it's what schools do now.
> Teachers unions are getting weaker and weaker. New grads have all
> the advantages, and older, more experienced teachers aren't hired
> because the schools would have to pay them more. It's taking
> longer to get tenure, too.

I don't think this is actually true - I need to see some report on
this, anecdotal evidence is worthless. In my experience, for example,
as a public school student, teachers unions were a travesty of life,
who kept around terrible old teachers who actively hurt student
learning, and prevented superior teachers from being hired.

> That mindset has also trickled up into higher ed. Colleges don't
> hire near as many profs full time, they eliminate jobs in order to
> hire more part-timers, and get rid of the tenured positions the
> second they get the chance. If they can't get rid of them, they
> stall. It saves them paying benefits, etc. West Chester took
> 6-8 years filling the sax position after Hegvik retired, and they
> are pussyfooting around with the trumpet position now (among others).

This is actually true in my experience, I'm just not sure it's a bad
thing.

> Say you could get one of these orchestral jobs and hold it for
> 5,10,15 years, then what do you do after that? Here's your answer
> - Nothing....Too much experience, and you aren't hirable. You'd
> make too much on the salary scale. You are Sheet Outta Luck,
> bud. Your fate: open a studio and teach a bunch of kids who don't
> practice, or get a grunt job at the WalMart.

Is your argument seriously that after a 15 year stint in the New York
Philharmonic, the only students you could get would be kids who
wouldn't practice? That seems barely tenable on its face.

> You need to learn more about unions, sonny, and pay your dues,
> first.... (she says, taking out her teeth.... ;) And then start
> saying Thank You to all the old farts who came before you, who made
> the orchestral jobs into something respectable.

Again, since I have no stake in an orchestral job to earn a decent
living (it seemed a pretty stupid way to try and do that), I have no
need to thank anyone.

A

On Nov 8, 2008, at 10:55 PM, thomaswinds wrote:

> One major reason orchestras do not reaudition players every 15
> years is because if they did, no player would ever be able to make
> money playing for a living. All the orchestras would do is hire
> kids and pay them base salary, they would pretty much all be
> temps. The AFM recognizes this, and thank Heaven it's still one
> of the strongest unions in the country.
>
> Don't believe me? It's already happened, it's what schools do now.
> Teachers unions are getting weaker and weaker. New grads have all
> the advantages, and older, more experienced teachers aren't hired
> because the schools would have to pay them more. It's taking
> longer to get tenure, too.
>
> That mindset has also trickled up into higher ed. Colleges don't
> hire near as many profs full time, they eliminate jobs in order to
> hire more part-timers, and get rid of the tenured positions the
> second they get the chance. If they can't get rid of them, they
> stall. It saves them paying benefits, etc. West Chester took
> 6-8 years filling the sax position after Hegvik retired, and they
> are pussyfooting around with the trumpet position now (among others).
>
> Say you could get one of these orchestral jobs and hold it for
> 5,10,15 years, then what do you do after that? Here's your answer
> - Nothing....Too much experience, and you aren't hirable. You'd
> make too much on the salary scale. You are Sheet Outta Luck,
> bud. Your fate: open a studio and teach a bunch of kids who don't
> practice, or get a grunt job at the WalMart.
>
> You need to learn more about unions, sonny, and pay your dues,
> first.... (she says, taking out her teeth.... ;) And then start
> saying Thank You to all the old farts who came before you, who made
> the orchestral jobs into something respectable.
>
> Lynn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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