Klarinet Archive - Posting 000126.txt from 2008/05

From: Peter Stoll <peterstoll2000@-----.ca>
Subj: [kl] Re: klarinet Digest 20 May 2008 21:01:02 -0000 Issue 7831
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:04:05 -0400

I got a Selmer A bass a couple of years ago; I've really enjoyed playing it=
, though the range is only to low Eb. But I also wondered about how common =
these were, given all the parts for them (Bartok too! Some big solos with E=
ng.horn in Folk Dance Suite). And while some composers do seem to change th=
e bass from A to Bb along with the clarinets, some definitely don't and tre=
at it as a different instrument and sound-colour issue. =0AI think I once s=
aw a Lizst tone poem ("Tasso"?) with a bass in *C* part; put that together =
with a Mahler sym. and=A0that would make for a heavy lift, 3 basses on one=
=A0concert!=A0=0A=0A=A0=0APeter Stoll=0A=A0=0ANEW WEBSITE! www.peterstoll.c=
a=0A=A0=0AInstructor of Clarinet and Chamber Music,=0AUniversity of Toronto=
=0A=A0=0AActing Principal Clarinetist, =0AToronto Philharmonia Orchestra=0A=
=A0=0AClarinetist, Saxophonist=0ATalisker Players=0ATrio d'Argento=0AGrand =
Salon Orchestra=0AERGO Ensemble=0A=A0=0ANational College of Examiners,=0ARo=
yal Conservatory of Music=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "klar=
inet-digest-help@-----.org>=0ATo: kl=
arinet@-----.org=0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:01:02 PM=0ASubject: kla=
rinet Digest 20 May 2008 21:01:02 -0000 Issue 7831=0A=0Aklarinet Digest 20 =
May 2008 21:01:02 -0000 Issue 7831=0A=0ATopics (messages 93455 through 9345=
9):=0A=0ARe: Bass In A=0A=A0=A0=A0 93455 by: Karl Krelove=0A=A0=A0=A0 93457=
by: Daniel Leeson=0A=A0=A0=A0 93458 by: Karl Krelove=0A=A0=A0=A0 93459 by:=
Daniel Leeson=0A=0ARe: {SPAM}=A0 [kl] Re: Bass In A=0A=A0=A0=A0 93456 by: =
Martin Baxter=0A=0AAdministrivia:=0A=0ATo subscribe to the digest, e-mail:=
m the digest, e-mail:=0A=A0=A0=A0 klarinet-digest-unsubscribe@-----.org=
=0A=0ATo post to the list, e-mail:=0A=A0=A0=A0 klarinet@-----.org=0A=0A=
=0A----------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0ADate: Tue, 20 May 2008 07:09:39 -0400=0ATo: <klarinet@-----.org>=0AFr=
om: "Karl Krelove" <karlkrelove@-----.net>=0ASubject: Re: Bass In A=0AMes=
sage-id: <003301c8ba69$ff71f550$fe55dff0$@net>=0A=0AI found this reply from=
a representative of Buffet interesting - it's a=0Aresponse to an email I l=
eft at the Buffet website last night just before I=0Aposted my question to =
list.=0A=0AKarl=0A=0AFrom: Rolland Sophie [mailto:SOR@-----.fr] =0A=
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:14 AM=0ATo: kkrelove@-----.net=0ASubject: T=
R : Question=0A=0ADear Sir,=0A=0AThank you for your interest in our brand.=
=0A=0APlease note that we have never distributed A bass clarinets.=0A=0AWit=
h best regards.=0A=0ASophie ROLLAND=0ASales export assistant (USA/Japan/Mid=
dle East)=0A5 rue Maurice Berteaux=0A78711 Mantes la Ville=0A=0A-----------=
-------------------=0A=0ADate: Tue, 20 May 2008 06:52:21 -0700=0ATo: <klari=
net@-----.net>=0ASubjec=
t: RE: [kl] Bass in A=0AMessage-ID: <FJEKIMDEOJFJPBKBMDOPKELKFNAA.dnleeson@=
sbcglobal.net>=0A=0AKarl, while I cannot speak to Buffet's statement about =
never having made a=0Abass clarinet in A, I can speak about Selmer since I =
owned a bass in A made=0Aby them about 20 years ago. I played it for about =
5 years before retiring=0Aand very much appreciated and enjoyed the instrum=
ent.=0A=0AI am advised that Selmer may make one on special order but they n=
o longer=0Ahave them in their catalog.=0A=0AI pointed one person interested=
in having such an instrument to Steve Fox in=0ACanada and don't have any i=
dea if Steve actually made one.=A0 But he did=0Acontact me by email to inqu=
ire about whether or not my bass in A went down=0Ato low C, so the discussi=
on was beyond the casual inquiry stage.=0A=0AI've played both the Rachmanin=
off Symphonic Dances and the La Valse on an A=0Abass and my reaction was en=
tirely visceral, namely that the sound character=0Aof an A bass was noticea=
bly different than a B-flat bass, to say nothing of=0Athe fact that I didn'=
t have to transpose into some weird keys signatures.=0A=0AThe Mahler sympho=
nies often require both B-flat and A bass, with one of the=0Asymphonies hav=
ing a singer for the last movement.=A0 In that movement the bass=0Ain A is =
called upon to play in a very awkward key signature, I think=0Asomething li=
ke 5 sharps.=A0 There was ample time to change to B-flat bass=0Abefore the =
part and also time to go back to A bass, but Mahler explicitly=0Acalled for=
an A bass, and that said something to me about Mahler's=0Aintentions.=0A=
=0AThe main reason why the instrument is so rare is not because of utilitar=
ian=0Areasons, but rather economics and also shlepping, with many clarineti=
sts=0Asaying "why should I carry two basses when one will do"? I think that=
is a=0Avery narrow and parochial view, but I am not going to drag that arg=
ument out=0Aagain.=0A=0AIf I were ever to want to do orchestral work again,=
which is highly=0Aunlikely, I'd get two bass clarinets. It was a joy to ha=
ve them, each for=0Atheir own purpose.=0A=0ADan Leeson=0A=0A-----Original M=
essage-----=0AFrom: Karl Krelove [mailto:karlkrelove@-----.net]=0ASent: M=
onday, May 19, 2008 7:43 PM=0ATo: klarinet@-----.org=0ASubject: [kl] Bas=
s in A=0A=0AI'm curious to know how recently bass clarinets pitched in A we=
re generally=0Aavailable and in use among orchestral players. I'm not looki=
ng to re-open=0Athe issue of the importance of playing on the instrument th=
e composer=0Arequested. Rather, I had the opportunity to play bass clarinet=
in several=0Aperformances of Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances this past wee=
k and was a=0Alittle surprised to find a section of about half a page of th=
e first=0Amovement written for bass clarinet in A. This in a piece composed=
, I assume,=0Ain the U.S. in 1941, not turn-of-the century Europe (we also =
played La valse=0Aon the same program with a great deal of the bass part in=
A - but that=0Adoesn't puzzle me nearly as much). Am I wrong to suspect th=
at the instrument=0Awas already more or less extinct in the US by 1941? Cou=
ld this have been a=0Acopyist's decision, since the other two clarinets are=
in A for the section=0Ain question, that the bass ought also to be in A?=
=0A=0AKarl=0A=0A-----------------------------------------------------------=
et-digest-unsubscribe@-----.=0AFor a list of c=
woodwind.org=0A=0A------------------------------=0A=0ADate: Tue, 20 May 200=
8 10:43:34 -0400=0ATo: <klarinet@-----.org>=0AFrom: "Karl Krelove" <karl=
krelove@-----.net>=0ASubject: RE: [kl] Bass in A=0AMessage-id: <003d01c8b=
a87$e1e4f910$a5aeeb30$@net>=0A=0ADan,=0A=0AI thought I remembered your havi=
ng posted before about owning one yourself.=0ABoth parts certainly would ha=
ve been more comfortable on an A instrument=0A(probably needless to say, I =
did all of it on a Bb). But I'm more curious=0Aabout where Rachmaninoff in =
particular would have been exposed to an A bass=0Aand whether in 1940s U.S.=
he would have had any reasonable expectation that=0Athe instrument would b=
e available, even in major orchestras. You were almost=0Acertainly an excep=
tion in carrying both instruments around 20 years ago, but=0Awould a player=
doing the same thing have been as much an exception 60 years=0Aago? 80? Wh=
en was the A bass a commonly used member of the section in the=0Away that A=
soprano clarinets have (I imagine) always been, such that=0Acomposers like=
Mahler, Ravel and Rachmaninoff could have assumed (or at=0Aleast reasonabl=
y hoped) that what they'd asked for was what they'd get in=0Aperformance?=
=0A=0AKarl=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Daniel Leeson [mailto:dn=
leeson@-----.net] =0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:52 AM=0ATo: klarinet=
@-----.org=0ASubject: RE: [kl] Bass in A=0A=0AKarl, while I cannot speak=
to Buffet's statement about never having made a=0Abass clarinet in A, I ca=
n speak about Selmer since I owned a bass in A made=0Aby them about 20 year=
s ago. I played it for about 5 years before retiring=0Aand very much apprec=
iated and enjoyed the instrument.=0A=0AI am advised that Selmer may make on=
e on special order but they no longer=0Ahave them in their catalog.=0A=0AI =
pointed one person interested in having such an instrument to Steve Fox in=
=0ACanada and don't have any idea if Steve actually made one.=A0 But he did=
=0Acontact me by email to inquire about whether or not my bass in A went do=
wn=0Ato low C, so the discussion was beyond the casual inquiry stage.=0A=0A=
I've played both the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances and the La Valse on an A=
=0Abass and my reaction was entirely visceral, namely that the sound charac=
ter=0Aof an A bass was noticeably different than a B-flat bass, to say noth=
ing of=0Athe fact that I didn't have to transpose into some weird keys sign=
atures.=0A=0AThe Mahler symphonies often require both B-flat and A bass, wi=
th one of the=0Asymphonies having a singer for the last movement.=A0 In tha=
t movement the bass=0Ain A is called upon to play in a very awkward key sig=
nature, I think=0Asomething like 5 sharps.=A0 There was ample time to chang=
e to B-flat bass=0Abefore the part and also time to go back to A bass, but =
Mahler explicitly=0Acalled for an A bass, and that said something to me abo=
ut Mahler's=0Aintentions.=0A=0AThe main reason why the instrument is so rar=
e is not because of utilitarian=0Areasons, but rather economics and also sh=
lepping, with many clarinetists=0Asaying "why should I carry two basses whe=
n one will do"? I think that is a=0Avery narrow and parochial view, but I a=
m not going to drag that argument out=0Aagain.=0A=0AIf I were ever to want =
to do orchestral work again, which is highly=0Aunlikely, I'd get two bass c=
larinets. It was a joy to have them, each for=0Atheir own purpose.=0A=0ADan=
Leeson=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Karl Krelove [mailto:karlkr=
elove@-----.net]=0ASent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:43 PM=0ATo: klarinet@wood=
wind.org=0ASubject: [kl] Bass in A=0A=0AI'm curious to know how recently ba=
ss clarinets pitched in A were generally=0Aavailable and in use among orche=
stral players. I'm not looking to re-open=0Athe issue of the importance of =
playing on the instrument the composer=0Arequested. Rather, I had the oppor=
tunity to play bass clarinet in several=0Aperformances of Rachmaninoff's Sy=
mphonic Dances this past week and was a=0Alittle surprised to find a sectio=
n of about half a page of the first=0Amovement written for bass clarinet in=
A. This in a piece composed, I assume,=0Ain the U.S. in 1941, not turn-of-=
the century Europe (we also played La valse=0Aon the same program with a gr=
eat deal of the bass part in A - but that=0Adoesn't puzzle me nearly as muc=
h). Am I wrong to suspect that the instrument=0Awas already more or less ex=
tinct in the US by 1941? Could this have been a=0Acopyist's decision, since=
the other two clarinets are in A for the section=0Ain question, that the b=
ass ought also to be in A?=0A=0AKarl=0A=0A---------------------------------=
ibe@-----.org if you get the=
elp: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A=0A-------------------------------=
cribe@-----.org if you get t=
help: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A=0A-----------------------------=
-=0A=0ADate: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:01:46 -0700=0ATo: <klarinet@-----.org>=
=0AFrom: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>=0ASubject: RE: [kl] Bass =
in A=0AMessage-ID: <FJEKIMDEOJFJPBKBMDOPGELMFNAA.dnleeson@-----.net>=0A=
=0AThese issues bothered me at one time, so I did an article on the subject=
.=0ASee "The Clarinet," November/December 1993, Volume 21, Number 1, pp. 52=
-6,=0A"Some Remarks on the Bass Clarinet in A."=0A=0AI did my best to grapp=
le with these non trivial issues that you bring up. As=0Ait turned out, the=
evidence pointed more towards the use of the bass in A in=0Athe German orc=
hestras. As I remember it, the article was fairly=0Acomprehensive but not t=
he doctoral dissertation that I suggested needed to=0Abe done on the histor=
y of the instrument.=0A=0AIt is a very dim page in the history of the bass =
clarinet, but for those who=0Ahave written, "The bass clarinet in A is an o=
bsolete instrument," they are=0Ajust expressing the parochial views of othe=
r authorities. If I were not so=0Ainvolved with other research projects, th=
is is one I would like to do more=0Athoroughly.=0A=0AIt is just the kind of=
thing that Keith Bowen in the UK could do nicely.=0A=0ADan=0A=0AP.S. And d=
on't forget Wagner.=A0 His stuff is jam packed with Bass in A=0Asections. O=
f all the transpositions, the only one that gave me fear was bass=0Ain A IN=
THE BASS CLEF. Half the time I wasn't sure in which register the=0Anotes w=
ere supposed to be, and the standards varied from country to country.=0A=0A=
-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Karl Krelove [mailto:karlkrelove@verizon=
.net]=0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:44 AM=0ATo: klarinet@-----.org=0AS=
ubject: RE: [kl] Bass in A=0A=0ADan,=0A=0AI thought I remembered your havin=
g posted before about owning one yourself.=0ABoth parts certainly would hav=
e been more comfortable on an A instrument=0A(probably needless to say, I d=
id all of it on a Bb). But I'm more curious=0Aabout where Rachmaninoff in p=
articular would have been exposed to an A bass=0Aand whether in 1940s U.S. =
he would have had any reasonable expectation that=0Athe instrument would be=
available, even in major orchestras. You were almost=0Acertainly an except=
ion in carrying both instruments around 20 years ago, but=0Awould a player =
doing the same thing have been as much an exception 60 years=0Aago? 80? Whe=
n was the A bass a commonly used member of the section in the=0Away that A =
soprano clarinets have (I imagine) always been, such that=0Acomposers like =
Mahler, Ravel and Rachmaninoff could have assumed (or at=0Aleast reasonably=
hoped) that what they'd asked for was what they'd get in=0Aperformance?=0A=
=0AKarl=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Daniel Leeson [mailto:dnlee=
son@-----.net]=0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:52 AM=0ATo: klarinet@woo=
dwind.org=0ASubject: RE: [kl] Bass in A=0A=0AKarl, while I cannot speak to =
Buffet's statement about never having made a=0Abass clarinet in A, I can sp=
eak about Selmer since I owned a bass in A made=0Aby them about 20 years ag=
o. I played it for about 5 years before retiring=0Aand very much appreciate=
d and enjoyed the instrument.=0A=0AI am advised that Selmer may make one on=
special order but they no longer=0Ahave them in their catalog.=0A=0AI poin=
ted one person interested in having such an instrument to Steve Fox in=0ACa=
nada and don't have any idea if Steve actually made one.=A0 But he did=0Aco=
ntact me by email to inquire about whether or not my bass in A went down=0A=
to low C, so the discussion was beyond the casual inquiry stage.=0A=0AI've =
played both the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances and the La Valse on an A=0Aba=
ss and my reaction was entirely visceral, namely that the sound character=
=0Aof an A bass was noticeably different than a B-flat bass, to say nothing=
of=0Athe fact that I didn't have to transpose into some weird keys signatu=
res.=0A=0AThe Mahler symphonies often require both B-flat and A bass, with =
one of the=0Asymphonies having a singer for the last movement.=A0 In that m=
ovement the bass=0Ain A is called upon to play in a very awkward key signat=
ure, I think=0Asomething like 5 sharps.=A0 There was ample time to change t=
o B-flat bass=0Abefore the part and also time to go back to A bass, but Mah=
ler explicitly=0Acalled for an A bass, and that said something to me about =
Mahler's=0Aintentions.=0A=0AThe main reason why the instrument is so rare i=
s not because of utilitarian=0Areasons, but rather economics and also shlep=
ping, with many clarinetists=0Asaying "why should I carry two basses when o=
ne will do"? I think that is a=0Avery narrow and parochial view, but I am n=
ot going to drag that argument out=0Aagain.=0A=0AIf I were ever to want to =
do orchestral work again, which is highly=0Aunlikely, I'd get two bass clar=
inets. It was a joy to have them, each for=0Atheir own purpose.=0A=0ADan Le=
eson=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Karl Krelove [mailto:karlkrelo=
ve@-----.net]=0ASent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:43 PM=0ATo: klarinet@woodwin=
d.org=0ASubject: [kl] Bass in A=0A=0AI'm curious to know how recently bass =
clarinets pitched in A were generally=0Aavailable and in use among orchestr=
al players. I'm not looking to re-open=0Athe issue of the importance of pla=
ying on the instrument the composer=0Arequested. Rather, I had the opportun=
ity to play bass clarinet in several=0Aperformances of Rachmaninoff's Symph=
onic Dances this past week and was a=0Alittle surprised to find a section o=
f about half a page of the first=0Amovement written for bass clarinet in A.=
This in a piece composed, I assume,=0Ain the U.S. in 1941, not turn-of-the=
century Europe (we also played La valse=0Aon the same program with a great=
deal of the bass part in A - but that=0Adoesn't puzzle me nearly as much).=
Am I wrong to suspect that the instrument=0Awas already more or less extin=
ct in the US by 1941? Could this have been a=0Acopyist's decision, since th=
e other two clarinets are in A for the section=0Ain question, that the bass=
ought also to be in A?=0A=0AKarl=0A=0A------------------------------------=
@-----.org if you get the di=
: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A=0A----------------------------------=
be@-----.org if you get the =
lp: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A=0A--------------------------------=
ribe@-----.org if you get th=
help: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A=0A------------------------------=
=0A=0ADate: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:58:22 +0100=0ATo: klarinet@-----.org=0AF=
rom: Martin Baxter <martinbaxter@-----.net>=0ACc: Martin Baxter <martinbaxter=
@-----.net>=0ASubject: Re: {SPAM}=A0 [kl] Re: Bass In A=0AMessage-Id: <BFCA58=
6C-993F-4492-AEBE-122BBF627162@-----.net>=0A=0AWhen I was in Berlin in1969 I =
had lessons from the Bassclarinettist=A0 =0Aof the opera; Herr Kunzler.=A0 =
He spoke of getting a bass clarinet in A=A0 =0Aso I imagine that they were =
still made thaen.=A0 It would oof course=A0 =0Ahave been a German system.=
=0AAt that time I was playing an old Boosey simple system bass. He=A0 =0Agr=
eatly admired it, and could play it superbly.=0A=A0 Martin=0AOn 20 May 2008=
, at 12:09, Karl Krelove wrote:=0A=0A> I found this reply from a representa=
tive of Buffet interesting -=A0 =0A> it's a=0A> response to an email I left=
at the Buffet website last night just=A0 =0A> before I=0A> posted my quest=
ion to list.=0A>=0A> Karl=0A>=0A> From: Rolland Sophie [mailto:SOR@buffetcr=
ampon.fr]=0A> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:14 AM=0A> To: kkrelove@-----.=
net=0A> Subject: TR : Question=0A>=0A> Dear Sir,=0A>=0A> Thank you for your=
interest in our brand.=0A>=0A> Please note that we have never distributed =
A bass clarinets.=0A>=0A> With best regards.=0A>=0A> Sophie ROLLAND=0A> Sal=
es export assistant (USA/Japan/Middle East)=0A> 5 rue Maurice Berteaux=0A> =
78711 Mantes la Ville=0A>=0A>=0A> -----------------------------------------=
odwind.org,=0A> klarinet-digest-unsubscribe@-----.org if you get the dig=
elp: email klarinet-owner@-----.org=0A>=0A=0A---------------------------=
---=0A=0AEnd of klarinet Digest=0A***********************************=0A=0A=
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