Klarinet Archive - Posting 000063.txt from 2008/04

From: Martin Baxter <martinbaxter@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Schubert 8th Symphony - 3/4 or 6/8?
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:24:50 -0400

When doing "America" with an inexperienced band I beat two with the
LH and and 3 with the RH using the size of my beat as a volume
indicator. It is really very easy to do -try it.
Martin
On 9 Apr 2008, at 16:24, Roger Hewitt wrote:

> This is interesting. I have always thought of the Schubert in 3/4 and
> find it very disruptive to think of it any other way, but I can see
> Forest's argument.
>
> One of the prime examples (in my experience) of the conflict
> leading to
> altered conducting is Bernstein's America from West Side Story. I
> have
> always seen this notated in 6/8, but many conductors, myself included,
> conduct this as 6/8 then 3/4 in alternate bars for most of the time
> with the odd exception bar here and there. But there is one bar that
> causes dispute. I have onle ever met one conductor who steadfastly
> conducted in 2. But there is definitely not "right" way, unless ...
> does anyone know what Bernstein himself did?
>
> I think the answer depends on whether conducting a different way
> successfully leads to a different result that the conductor is after.
> And, of course, sometimes you have to help an inexperienced band in
> the
> way that a professional crew would not need.
>
> Just my few pennyworth,
> Roger H
>
>
> --- Forest Aten <forestaten@-----.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> An orchestra I am playing with is doing Schubert's 8th
>> ("Unfinished")
>>> Symphony. The first movement is written in a 3/4 time signature,
>> and I
>>> have always "felt" the piece in that meter. However, the conductor
>> is
>>> insisting in conducting parts of it in a "2" feel of 6/8. So
>> whereas I
>>> always thought of the melody (e.g. dotted-half in one measure,
>>> dotted-quarter eighth eighth eighth in the second) such that the
>> first
>>> eighth note in the second measure is more like a pickup to the
>> third
>>> beat, his conducting makes that first eighth note the first note in
>> a
>>> triplet.
>>>
>>> It's driving me crazy having to think of the piece in this way
>> (mostly I
>>> silently ignore him and think in 3), but perhaps this is as it was
>>> intended and I've just thought about it wrong all my adult life.
>> The
>>> piece definitely has a 3 feel in many of the parts (he switches
>> back and
>>> forth in his conducting), but if some is intended to actually have
>> a 6/8
>>> feel then I find it easier to do 6/8 over 3/4 than to try to play a
>> 3/4
>>> part over 6/8 (e.g. the syncopated sections).
>>>
>>> I have been so far unsuccessful in finding any discussion of this
>> online
>>> and I can't say I've ever seen the piece conducted by a
>> professional.
>>> Listening to the recording I have (Academy of St Martin in the
>> Fields)
>>> doesn't help since the eighths seem to be without any accent and
>> could
>>> go either way. Has anyone ever come across this as an issue?
>>>
>>> Erik Tkal
>>>
>>
>> All of the time.....
>>
>> Conductors will do this to facilitate a particularly difficult rhythm
>> (often
>> 3 on 2 or 3s across bar lines, etc.) While it makes things more
>> difficult
>> for some players....it makes things a lot easier for others.
>> No matter which part you're involved with....you must keep the
>> smallest
>> value notes running in your internal rhythmic mechanism.
>> Don't fight it....
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Forest
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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