Klarinet Archive - Posting 000050.txt from 2008/04

From: Roger Hewitt <rogerclarinet@-----.uk>
Subj: RE: [kl] Schubert 8th Symphony - 3/4 or 6/8?
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:24:28 -0400

This is interesting. I have always thought of the Schubert in 3/4 and
find it very disruptive to think of it any other way, but I can see
Forest's argument.

One of the prime examples (in my experience) of the conflict leading to
altered conducting is Bernstein's America from West Side Story. I have
always seen this notated in 6/8, but many conductors, myself included,
conduct this as 6/8 then 3/4 in alternate bars for most of the time
with the odd exception bar here and there. But there is one bar that
causes dispute. I have onle ever met one conductor who steadfastly
conducted in 2. But there is definitely not "right" way, unless ...
does anyone know what Bernstein himself did?

I think the answer depends on whether conducting a different way
successfully leads to a different result that the conductor is after.
And, of course, sometimes you have to help an inexperienced band in the
way that a professional crew would not need.

Just my few pennyworth,
Roger H

--- Forest Aten <forestaten@-----.com> wrote:

> >
> > An orchestra I am playing with is doing Schubert's 8th
> ("Unfinished")
> > Symphony. The first movement is written in a 3/4 time signature,
> and I
> > have always "felt" the piece in that meter. However, the conductor
> is
> > insisting in conducting parts of it in a "2" feel of 6/8. So
> whereas I
> > always thought of the melody (e.g. dotted-half in one measure,
> > dotted-quarter eighth eighth eighth in the second) such that the
> first
> > eighth note in the second measure is more like a pickup to the
> third
> > beat, his conducting makes that first eighth note the first note in
> a
> > triplet.
> >
> > It's driving me crazy having to think of the piece in this way
> (mostly I
> > silently ignore him and think in 3), but perhaps this is as it was
> > intended and I've just thought about it wrong all my adult life.
> The
> > piece definitely has a 3 feel in many of the parts (he switches
> back and
> > forth in his conducting), but if some is intended to actually have
> a 6/8
> > feel then I find it easier to do 6/8 over 3/4 than to try to play a
> 3/4
> > part over 6/8 (e.g. the syncopated sections).
> >
> > I have been so far unsuccessful in finding any discussion of this
> online
> > and I can't say I've ever seen the piece conducted by a
> professional.
> > Listening to the recording I have (Academy of St Martin in the
> Fields)
> > doesn't help since the eighths seem to be without any accent and
> could
> > go either way. Has anyone ever come across this as an issue?
> >
> > Erik Tkal
> >
>
> All of the time.....
>
> Conductors will do this to facilitate a particularly difficult rhythm
> (often
> 3 on 2 or 3s across bar lines, etc.) While it makes things more
> difficult
> for some players....it makes things a lot easier for others.
> No matter which part you're involved with....you must keep the
> smallest
> value notes running in your internal rhythmic mechanism.
> Don't fight it....
>
> Good luck.
>
> Forest
>
>
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>
>

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