Klarinet Archive - Posting 000006.txt from 2008/03

From: "Mike Vaccaro" <mike@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Beethoven Octet
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 17:50:50 -0500

I would suggest thinking of the reed as a hotplate and getting the tongue
off the reed as quick as possible in order not to burn your tongue. That is
tonguing by release instead of attack. Make sure your reed/mouthpiece setup
is conducive to tonguing (i.e. not to hard), and make sure you have a lot of
reserve air that you are not forcing. If that doesn't work do what most
mortals do and slur two/tongue two.

Best,
Mike Vaccaro
www.MikeVaccaro.Com
www.VaccaroAndStevensWoodwinds.Com
www.MandMMouthpieces.Com

----- Original Message -----
From: <myrnabs@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] Beethoven Octet

>I find this very intriguing and realistic. Makes perfect sense. WOW!!
>Thanks for this great info!!
>
> BTW, just try a valium it might help with ur tonguing, lol!! just
> kidding!!
>
> Myrnabs
> http://myspace.com/myrnasaldana
> http://myrnabs.blogspot.com
> http://pbase.com/myrnabs
> http://scentsy.com/myrnabs
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Dablin <jdablin@-----.com>
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 4:14:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Beethoven Octet
>
> Not many replies so far. Of course, people could be away for the
> weekend, but it could also be because you've touched upon the Holy
> Grail of clarinet playing, and it's just as elusive.
>
>>From personal experience, and reading this list over a number of
> years, I would say...
>
> - even the best players don't really know for sure how their tongue
> moves as they play.
>
> - observations with X-rays and scanners suggest that what the player
> thinks they are doing with their tongue isn't necessarily what
> really happens.
>
> - a teacher cannot see what the student is doing with their tongue,
> neither can the student see the teacher's tongue, so teaching has
> to rely on suggestion and metaphor. As a result, articulation, at
> whatever speed, is ultimately something you have to learn for
> yourself. Some are lucky and find a way, others aren't.
>
> I'd like to speculate on why many of us find it so hard, and I'd be
> delighted to elicit some comments:
>
> Like any other muscle, the tongue can never move fast if it is
> stiff. It needs to be completely relaxed and move the minimum
> distance necessary. This is hard to achieve when the facial muscles
> are being tensed to form the embouchure, so the first battle is to
> learn to relax the tongue while playing.
>
> I can hum "da-da-da-da-da-...." as fast as I like, so why can I not
> tongue at that speed when playing? Two possible reasons come to
> mind: to stop the read vibrating requires more pressure than just
> saying 'da' on the roof of the mouth, so the tongue has to work
> harder and stiffens up, or the position the tongue has to take to
> meet the reed puts it into a less natural position, again making it
> stiffer. As I said above, a stiff tongue can't move fast.
>
> It's interesting that I cannot tongue as fast on higher notes (above
> the stave) as I can on an open G, say. I believe this is because my
> tongue changes position unconsciously as I go higher, and this
> makes it harder to tongue on the tip of the reed.
>
> I've forgotten where I read it, but someone observed that the tongue
> cannot move fast back and forwards, but only up and down. I've been
> experimenting on these lines recently, but so far nothing
> has 'clicked'. I haven't given up hope, though.
>
> Tonguing fast and evenly on a single note is one thing, but you also
> have to co-ordinate the tongue with your finger movements, which is
> another battle in itself.
>
> Peter Hadcock in "The Working Clarinetist" said:
>
> "I have found that most players can tongue initially at about the
> same speed - sixteenth notes at quarter note = 138".
>
> I would give my right leg (I need my right arm for the clarinet!) to
> be able to tongue at that speed, let alone faster (I can just about
> manage 120 as long as the notes aren't too high - see above). Like
> many clarinettists at my level, the fact that I can't is very
> frustrating.
>
> Before I finish, there are a lot of valuable articles about clarinet
> technique (including articulation and tonguing speed) on
> woodwind.org, go to
> <http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/index.html>.
> Also, Sean Osborn has a lot of excellent advice on his website
> <http://www.osbornmusic.com/> (click on "Educational").
>
> Good luck, and enjoy the octet.
>
> John Dablin
> Aylesbury UK
>
> On Sunday 02 March 2008 10:53, Benedict Lockwood wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I have been asked to play first clarinet in the Beethoven Octet.
>> A great honour and an exciting challenge.
>>
>> There is one bit that I can't quite get my head around. In the
>> first movement at bar 154, the 1st clarinet has a run of 16ths.
>> In the recording I have of Sabine Meyer's Ensemble, she tongues
>> this very delicately and it sounds wonderful. However, no matter
>> how hard I practice, I cannot get the tonguing fast enough.
>>
>> Are there any tricks to getting it working?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice
>>
>> Benedict
>> Arlesheim, Switzerland
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>>
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