Klarinet Archive - Posting 000005.txt from 2008/03

From: myrnabs@-----.net
Subj: Re: [kl] Beethoven Octet
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 17:34:14 -0500

I find this very intriguing and realistic. Makes perfect sense. WOW!! Thanks for this great info!!

BTW, just try a valium it might help with ur tonguing, lol!! just kidding!!

Myrnabs
http://myspace.com/myrnasaldana
http://myrnabs.blogspot.com
http://pbase.com/myrnabs
http://scentsy.com/myrnabs

----- Original Message ----
From: John Dablin <jdablin@-----.com>
To: klarinet@-----.org
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 4:14:55 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] Beethoven Octet

Not many replies so far. Of course, people could be away for the
weekend, but it could also be because you've touched upon the Holy
Grail of clarinet playing, and it's just as elusive.

From personal experience, and reading this list over a number of
years, I would say...

- even the best players don't really know for sure how their tongue
moves as they play.

- observations with X-rays and scanners suggest that what the player
thinks they are doing with their tongue isn't necessarily what
really happens.

- a teacher cannot see what the student is doing with their tongue,
neither can the student see the teacher's tongue, so teaching has
to rely on suggestion and metaphor. As a result, articulation, at
whatever speed, is ultimately something you have to learn for
yourself. Some are lucky and find a way, others aren't.

I'd like to speculate on why many of us find it so hard, and I'd be
delighted to elicit some comments:

Like any other muscle, the tongue can never move fast if it is
stiff. It needs to be completely relaxed and move the minimum
distance necessary. This is hard to achieve when the facial muscles
are being tensed to form the embouchure, so the first battle is to
learn to relax the tongue while playing.

I can hum "da-da-da-da-da-...." as fast as I like, so why can I not
tongue at that speed when playing? Two possible reasons come to
mind: to stop the read vibrating requires more pressure than just
saying 'da' on the roof of the mouth, so the tongue has to work
harder and stiffens up, or the position the tongue has to take to
meet the reed puts it into a less natural position, again making it
stiffer. As I said above, a stiff tongue can't move fast.

It's interesting that I cannot tongue as fast on higher notes (above
the stave) as I can on an open G, say. I believe this is because my
tongue changes position unconsciously as I go higher, and this
makes it harder to tongue on the tip of the reed.

I've forgotten where I read it, but someone observed that the tongue
cannot move fast back and forwards, but only up and down. I've been
experimenting on these lines recently, but so far nothing
has 'clicked'. I haven't given up hope, though.

Tonguing fast and evenly on a single note is one thing, but you also
have to co-ordinate the tongue with your finger movements, which is
another battle in itself.

Peter Hadcock in "The Working Clarinetist" said:

"I have found that most players can tongue initially at about the
same speed - sixteenth notes at quarter note = 138".

I would give my right leg (I need my right arm for the clarinet!) to
be able to tongue at that speed, let alone faster (I can just about
manage 120 as long as the notes aren't too high - see above). Like
many clarinettists at my level, the fact that I can't is very
frustrating.

Before I finish, there are a lot of valuable articles about clarinet
technique (including articulation and tonguing speed) on
woodwind.org, go to
<http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/index.html>.
Also, Sean Osborn has a lot of excellent advice on his website
<http://www.osbornmusic.com/> (click on "Educational").

Good luck, and enjoy the octet.

John Dablin
Aylesbury UK

On Sunday 02 March 2008 10:53, Benedict Lockwood wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I have been asked to play first clarinet in the Beethoven Octet.
> A great honour and an exciting challenge.
>
> There is one bit that I can't quite get my head around. In the
> first movement at bar 154, the 1st clarinet has a run of 16ths.
> In the recording I have of Sabine Meyer's Ensemble, she tongues
> this very delicately and it sounds wonderful. However, no matter
> how hard I practice, I cannot get the tonguing fast enough.
>
> Are there any tricks to getting it working?
>
> Thanks for any advice
>
> Benedict
> Arlesheim, Switzerland
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>
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