Klarinet Archive - Posting 000170.txt from 2008/01
From: "bowenk@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb arrogance/etc
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:24:01 -0500
There are some (early) basset HORNS that have a key for the vent hole,
allowing a keyed low B=2E There's one in the music museum at Leipzig; I
accompanied Steve Fox when he measured it and have some pictures=2E
Interestingly, it is the same shape as the Stadler basset clarinet, ie wit=
h
a bell at right angles to the body=2E
I think there would be a case for using it on a turn on low C as well, in
the slow movement=2E
Keith Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jonathan Cohler cohler@iwwf=2Eorg
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:43:08 -0500
To: klarinet@woodwind=2Eorg
Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs=2E Bb arrogance/etc
=20
That's VERY interesting about the low B that you mention, because I=20
have always felt (with no evidence other than analysis and=20
conjecture, of course), that there is at least one spot in the solo=20
part that should go to the low B=2E I always wondered about that, but=20
had never heard until now, that the instrument DID go to low B=2E
Since the manuscript was lost, it's just a guess, but it is clear=20
that subsequent editors made changes to accomodate the "normal"=20
clarinet that only goes down to low E=2E
In measure 295 of the first movement, the second and third beats have=20
F, D, B, G, F descending from the first space F=2E My guess is that=20
this was supposed to be B, G, F, D, B descending from the B just=20
below the staff=2E (by analogy with the same passage in the exposition,=20=
and by the fact that the figure as printed doesn't seem very=20
"Mozartaen" for a variety of reasons)
--Jonathan
At 8:45 AM -0800 1/9/08, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>Pamela is a powerhouse!! It was her work and her work alone that allow
the
>rediscovery of a picture of Stadler's basset clarinet=2E Prior to that ti=
me,
>the existence of such an instrument was entirely based on unexplainable
>peculiarities in the text of K=2E 622=2E But Pamela found a program in w=
hich
>Stadler played K=2E 622 in a concert venue in Latvia or Lithuania=2E I f=
orget=2E
>And in that program was a sketch of Stadler's instrument=2E It was so str=
ange
>that the management decided to show a picture of this bizarre instrument,=
>thank goodness=2E Without it we would still be arguing if Stadler really =
had
>such an instrument=2E
>
>Some of the "make your own clarinetists" went mad with delight when they
saw
>that the bell of the instrument was shaped like an English horn bell=2E =
And
>further, that there was a vent hole at the lower end of the lower joint
>through which the air came when the low C was played=2E
>
>That vent hole has now given rise to the theory that the instrument did n=
ot
>go down to low C, but rather to low B-natural when the vent hole was clos=
ed
>with a pad or even the use of the leg to cover it=2E
>
>Dan Leeson
>dnleeson@sbcglobal=2Enet
>SKYPE: dnleeson
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@iwwf=2Eorg]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:33 PM
>To: klarinet@woodwind=2Eorg
>Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs=2E Bb arrogance/etc
>
>
>Thanks, Dan, for the spelling correction and the note about the
>instrument's name=2E Yes according to an interesting article I just
>found on the web (by Pamela L=2E Poulin):
>
>=09http://symposium=2Emusic=2Eorg/cgi-bin/m=5Fsymp=5Fshow=2Epl=3Fid=3D241=
>
>the terms "bass clarinet", "basset clarinet" and "newly invented
>clarinet" were all used to describe the instrument in the 18th and
>early 19th centuries=2E She has lots of good sources, references and
>facsimiles in the article=2E Including, of course, references to some
>of your work Dan!
>
>--Jonathan
>
>At 5:28 PM -0800 1/8/08, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>>I always thought that the term "basset clarinet" was a modern invention,=
>but
>>Nicolas Shackelton shaped my head right when he point out two 18th centu=
ry
>>sources calling the instrument a basset clarinet=2E
>>
>>Dan Leeson
>>dnleeson@sbcglobal=2Enet
>>SKYPE: dnleeson
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@iwwf=2Eorg]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 5:21 PM
>>To: klarinet@woodwind=2Eorg
>>Subject: Re: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs=2E Bb arrogance/etc
>>
>>
>>The Mozart Concerto was written for an extended A clarinet, that has
>>been dubbed the "bassett clarinet" not to be confused with the
>>"bassett horn" or alto clarinet=2E
>>
>>So, the answer to your question is no, an A-clarinet sounds more like
>>a bassett clarinet than an alto clarinet=2E Of course, a bassett
>>clarinet is the best choice=2E
>>
>>--Jonathan
>>
>>>been lurking here a year or so - here's my first post:
>>>
>>>>Therefore, if color is the argument for instrument choice, and only
>>>>modern-day instruments are at hand, then using a modern day A
>>>>clarinet to play a Beethoven C clarinet part would be a BETTER choice
>>>>than using a modern day C clarinet!
> >>
>>>thanks for mentioning that=2E
>>>following that logic, should one play the mozart concerto on alto
clarinet
>>>- at least at auditions=3F :) - isn't an alto closer to a basset-horn t=
han
>an
>>A=3F
>>>
>>>IMHO, the timbre differences between A/Bb are too subtle to support
>>>any kind of historical accuracy/composer intent argument=2E and even
>>>if a few low Ebs have to be changed or tongue-on-the-reed "lipped
>>>down", who cares=3F arrogance=3F composers are are far more arrogant=2E=
=2E
>>>use the composer's score as a tool to make good music - not the
>>>other way around!
>>>
>>>m@
>>>http://sfsound=2Eorg/matt
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Jonathan Cohler
>>Artistic & General Director
>>International Woodwind Festival
>>http://iwwf=2Eorg/
>>cohler@iwwf=2Eorg
>>
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>
>
>--
>Jonathan Cohler
>Artistic & General Director
>International Woodwind Festival
>http://iwwf=2Eorg/
>cohler@iwwf=2Eorg
>
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--=20
Jonathan Cohler
Artistic & General Director
International Woodwind Festival
http://iwwf=2Eorg/
cohler@iwwf=2Eorg
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