Klarinet Archive - Posting 000169.txt from 2008/01

From: clarni bass <clarnibass@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] low C vent (producing low b)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:02:31 -0500

The new Selmer bass also has the open hole in the
bell. On the Buffet bass (I've tried many) the low B
is a little (too) sharp - just ok to use (maybe!).
I've never wanted/needed to use it though. At least
one player (Henri Bok) said that for a piece without
the low C, he plugs that hole and uses the low B
instead.

Yes Dan, you're correct about the open hole in the
bell giving the right length, but the instrument could
have been built a little shorter and have the lowest
note come out only from the end of the bell. Notes
coming from the bell will usually have a different
sound and the open hole is supposed to improve them
(low notes on saxophone is a good example, and even
soparano clarinet E/B to some degree).

But if I misunderstood and you meant "hole in the
wood" as opposed to a hole in a metal part (the
passive vent on the bass is on the metal bell) then
there is no difference at all.

BTW on (good) bass clarinets the low notes still sound
very good. On a basset clarinet, because of the bore
size the low notes are beginning to sound very trebley
(I hope it is not very vague what I mean). I'm
wondering if there is a way to improve them without
making them sound less clarinety... or at all!

Nitai

--- Daniel Leeson <dnleeson@-----.net> wrote:

> If I am correct, the purpose of the vent is to allow
> the air column to leave
> the instrument at the place where it will produce
> the proper pitch. I am
> not really capable on concluding that the air
> leaving the instrument through
> a hole in wood, is better or worse that the air
> leaving the instrument
> through the bell.
>
> DNL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Franklin
> [mailto:jfranklin@-----.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:57 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] low C vent (producing low b)
>
>
> I assume that those of you discussing the low C vent
> on the basset clarinet
> and basset horns are aware that the modern Buffet
> Bass Clarinet to low C
> (model 1193) also has a open vent on the bell, which
> if covered (I used
> scotch tape) produces a very nice low B.
>
> I guess it would be interesting to know whether
> Buffet got this idea from
> the ancient basset instruments or elsewhere.
>
> Since it is not normally meant to be closed, I would
> assume Buffet uses the
> vent (and the corresponding additional length of the
> bell) to improve the
> sound of the low C, and maybe for some other
> acoustical reasons.
>
> It might not be too presumptuous to could assume
> that was also the reason
> for the vent on the historic instruments.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Leeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:55 AM
> Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb
> arrogance/etc
>
>
> > Jonathan, I'd have to think about your suggestion,
> but it might very well
> > be
> > plausible. Let me tell you how the discovery was
> made about the instrument
> > going down to low B-natural.
> >
> > After Pamela made her remarkable discovery,
> several instrument makers
> > built
> > basset horns base on the sketch she provided (and
> if memory serve me
> > correctly, that sketch was in the Clarinet
> magazine as part of an article
> > by
> > Pamela). The American clarinetist (Hubrich --
> spelling???) who lives in
> > the
> > Netherlands and teaches there was one of the
> people who built one. In
> > playing it, one day, he was playing low C while
> his leg accidentally
> > covered
> > the vent hole. Out came a low B-natural! A
> miracle?? Something new!!
> >
> > Later, it was discovered that two basset horns
> (not a typo, basset horns,
> > not basset clarinets here) in a museum in Europe
> both had the same vent
> > hole
> > and both and a key over the vent hole so that the
> low B-natural could be
> > played is a more accomdating fashion than simply
> covering the hole with
> > the
> > leg (actually, the calf, probably). But no
> example or reference to a
> > basset
> > clarinet having a key over the vent hole exists.
> Maybe some day, we shall
> > find one.
> >
> > One of the problems I face is trying to determine
> where in the text of 622
> > or 581 or elsewhere, the low B-natural might be
> employed, and your
> > suggestion is going to go into the pot of possible
> places.
> >
> > Isn't discovery grand?
> >
> > Dan Leeson
> > dnleeson@-----.net
> > SKYPE: dnleeson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@-----.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:43 AM
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb
> arrogance/etc
> >
> >
> > That's VERY interesting about the low B that you
> mention, because I
> > have always felt (with no evidence other than
> analysis and
> > conjecture, of course), that there is at least one
> spot in the solo
> > part that should go to the low B. I always
> wondered about that, but
> > had never heard until now, that the instrument DID
> go to low B.
> >
> > Since the manuscript was lost, it's just a guess,
> but it is clear
> > that subsequent editors made changes to accomodate
> the "normal"
> > clarinet that only goes down to low E.
> >
> > In measure 295 of the first movement, the second
> and third beats have
> > F, D, B, G, F descending from the first space F.
> My guess is that
> > this was supposed to be B, G, F, D, B descending
> from the B just
> > below the staff. (by analogy with the same passage
> in the exposition,
> > and by the fact that the figure as printed doesn't
> seem very
> > "Mozartaen" for a variety of reasons)
> >
> > --Jonathan
> >
> > At 8:45 AM -0800 1/9/08, Daniel Leeson wrote:
> >>Pamela is a powerhouse!! It was her work and her
> work alone that allow
> > the
> >>rediscovery of a picture of Stadler's basset
> clarinet. Prior to that time,
> >>the existence of such an instrument was entirely
> based on unexplainable
> >>peculiarities in the text of K. 622. But Pamela
> found a program in which
> >>Stadler played K. 622 in a concert venue in Latvia
> or Lithuania. I
> >>forget.
> >>And in that program was a sketch of Stadler's
> instrument. It was so
> >>strange
> >>that the management decided to show a picture of
> this bizarre instrument,
> >>thank goodness. Without it we would still be
> arguing if Stadler really had
> >>such an instrument.
> >>
> >>Some of the "make your own clarinetists" went mad
> with delight when they
> > saw
> >>that the bell of the instrument was shaped like an
> English horn bell. And
> >>further, that there was a vent hole at the lower
> end of the lower joint
> >>through which the air came when the low C was
> played.
> >>
> >>That vent hole has now given rise to the theory
> that the instrument did
> >>not
> >>go down to low C, but rather to low B-natural when
> the vent hole was
> >>closed
> >>with a pad or even the use of the leg to cover it.
> >>
> >>Dan Leeson
> >>dnleeson@-----.net
> >>SKYPE: dnleeson
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@-----.org]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:33 PM
> >>To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb
> arrogance/etc
> >>
> >>
>
=== message truncated ===

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