Klarinet Archive - Posting 000161.txt from 2008/01

From: Jonathan Cohler <cohler@-----.org>
Subj: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb arrogance/etc
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:43:08 -0500

That's VERY interesting about the low B that you mention, because I
have always felt (with no evidence other than analysis and
conjecture, of course), that there is at least one spot in the solo
part that should go to the low B. I always wondered about that, but
had never heard until now, that the instrument DID go to low B.

Since the manuscript was lost, it's just a guess, but it is clear
that subsequent editors made changes to accomodate the "normal"
clarinet that only goes down to low E.

In measure 295 of the first movement, the second and third beats have
F, D, B, G, F descending from the first space F. My guess is that
this was supposed to be B, G, F, D, B descending from the B just
below the staff. (by analogy with the same passage in the exposition,
and by the fact that the figure as printed doesn't seem very
"Mozartaen" for a variety of reasons)

--Jonathan

At 8:45 AM -0800 1/9/08, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>Pamela is a powerhouse!! It was her work and her work alone that allow the
>rediscovery of a picture of Stadler's basset clarinet. Prior to that time,
>the existence of such an instrument was entirely based on unexplainable
>peculiarities in the text of K. 622. But Pamela found a program in which
>Stadler played K. 622 in a concert venue in Latvia or Lithuania. I forget.
>And in that program was a sketch of Stadler's instrument. It was so strange
>that the management decided to show a picture of this bizarre instrument,
>thank goodness. Without it we would still be arguing if Stadler really had
>such an instrument.
>
>Some of the "make your own clarinetists" went mad with delight when they saw
>that the bell of the instrument was shaped like an English horn bell. And
>further, that there was a vent hole at the lower end of the lower joint
>through which the air came when the low C was played.
>
>That vent hole has now given rise to the theory that the instrument did not
>go down to low C, but rather to low B-natural when the vent hole was closed
>with a pad or even the use of the leg to cover it.
>
>Dan Leeson
>dnleeson@-----.net
>SKYPE: dnleeson
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@-----.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:33 PM
>To: klarinet@-----.org
>Subject: RE: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb arrogance/etc
>
>
>Thanks, Dan, for the spelling correction and the note about the
>instrument's name. Yes according to an interesting article I just
>found on the web (by Pamela L. Poulin):
>
> http://symposium.music.org/cgi-bin/m_symp_show.pl?id=241
>
>the terms "bass clarinet", "basset clarinet" and "newly invented
>clarinet" were all used to describe the instrument in the 18th and
>early 19th centuries. She has lots of good sources, references and
>facsimiles in the article. Including, of course, references to some
>of your work Dan!
>
>--Jonathan
>
>At 5:28 PM -0800 1/8/08, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>>I always thought that the term "basset clarinet" was a modern invention,
>but
>>Nicolas Shackelton shaped my head right when he point out two 18th century
>>sources calling the instrument a basset clarinet.
>>
>>Dan Leeson
>>dnleeson@-----.net
>>SKYPE: dnleeson
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jonathan Cohler [mailto:cohler@-----.org]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 5:21 PM
>>To: klarinet@-----.org
>>Subject: Re: [kl] bartok/k-622/A vs. Bb arrogance/etc
>>
>>
>>The Mozart Concerto was written for an extended A clarinet, that has
>>been dubbed the "bassett clarinet" not to be confused with the
>>"bassett horn" or alto clarinet.
>>
>>So, the answer to your question is no, an A-clarinet sounds more like
>>a bassett clarinet than an alto clarinet. Of course, a bassett
>>clarinet is the best choice.
>>
>>--Jonathan
>>
>>>been lurking here a year or so - here's my first post:
>>>
>>>>Therefore, if color is the argument for instrument choice, and only
>>>>modern-day instruments are at hand, then using a modern day A
>>>>clarinet to play a Beethoven C clarinet part would be a BETTER choice
>>>>than using a modern day C clarinet!
> >>
>>>thanks for mentioning that.
>>>following that logic, should one play the mozart concerto on alto clarinet
>>>- at least at auditions? :) - isn't an alto closer to a basset-horn than
>an
>>A?
>>>
>>>IMHO, the timbre differences between A/Bb are too subtle to support
>>>any kind of historical accuracy/composer intent argument. and even
>>>if a few low Ebs have to be changed or tongue-on-the-reed "lipped
>>>down", who cares? arrogance? composers are are far more arrogant..
>>>use the composer's score as a tool to make good music - not the
>>>other way around!
>>>
>>>m@
>>>http://sfsound.org/matt
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
>>>https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>--
>>Jonathan Cohler
>>Artistic & General Director
>>International Woodwind Festival
>>http://iwwf.org/
>>cohler@-----.org
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
>>https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
>>https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--
>Jonathan Cohler
>Artistic & General Director
>International Woodwind Festival
>http://iwwf.org/
>cohler@-----.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
>https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
>https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Jonathan Cohler
Artistic & General Director
International Woodwind Festival
http://iwwf.org/
cohler@-----.org

------------------------------------------------------------------
The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
------------------------------------------------------------------