Klarinet Archive - Posting 000003.txt from 2008/01

From: Jonathan Cohler <cohler@-----.org>
Subj: RE: [kl] Re: Legato Finger Motion
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 11:48:39 -0500

This is a good point, Karl, that I failed to address specifically.

You MUST close the hole completely and instantaneously or else you
WILL get transition effects that disturb the attack and pitch just
has you point out Karl.

As you point out the analogy to the voice or a string instrument is
invalid (unless talking about jazz or klezmer where glissandi and
other transition effects are desired). In the case of the voice or a
string, the vibrating medium (string or vocal chords) is continuous
whereas on the clarinet, the instrument is controlled by a lattice of
discrete tone holes.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating loud finger slapping and key
noise. But it is definitely, and unequivocally incorrect to state
that the holes should be closed "gradually" to obtain legato.
Gradually tone hole closing or opening is only used for "special"
effects such as glissanding and other interesting noises which are so
much fun to do and so useful in Klezmer and other kinds of folk music.

--Jonathan

At 11:15 AM -0500 1/1/08, Karl Krelove wrote:
>The part of this thread that really sits uncomfortably for me is the idea
>that there is anything really "gradual" about the hole closure in good
>legato. I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread really wants to
>equate "legato" to vocal glissando or portamento, in which the pitch of one
>note actually slides into the next. I question from my own experience
>whether or not a really slow, gradual closing or opening of a clarinet tone
>hole **by itself** will even result in a smooth gliss - there are other
>parts to a jazz or Rhapsody In Blue style glissando without which the notes
>at some point in the process lose focus and control. But that's not what
>we're after when we want to play "legato." It's the connection of two
>distinct, discreet pitches with no aurally apparent interruption or
>disruption. It seems to me more or less intuitive that when a hole is
>partially closed you get fuzzy, out of tune notes that are difficult to
>control - try putting your finger almost all the way down but with a little
>crack around your finger to allow air still to get by. I don't think anyone
>would consider that to be a good step in getting from one note to another
>smoothly. I think it *is* the very sudden and complete closure of the hole -
>all at once and *not* bit by bit - along with supporting technique in
>blowing and embouchure, that results in smooth aural connection from one
>note to the next. The issue isn't gradual-ness, but control that makes
>possible (along with breath and embouchure control) a connection seamless or
>percussive or just plain rough or any of an infinity of gradations in
>between. For players like Bonade and, I take it McLane and Marcellus,
>perhaps that slow-motion approach of the finger to the hole provided the
>control they needed - but I don't believe for a second that they covered the
>holes in a slow, gradual way or meant for their students to do that. If you
>don't close the hole all at once, you create physical resistance and
>instability that would seem to be in direct opposition to smoothness (again,
>these are discreet pitches, *not* glissandi that I think we're all talking
>about). If you close the hole in a careless, sloppy, rough way, you no doubt
>create disruptions to the air stream that can certainly cause the noises,
>pops and other interruptions that various posters have complained about.
>
>I also am uncomfortable, though some of the more established players who
>have posted may be able to convince me to be more accepting, with trying to
>make a literal comparison between woodwind legato and vocal techniques by
>which notes change pitch. The mechanisms are completely different. Vocal
>pitch is to some extent all (very quick) portamento and is accomplished, as
>I understand it, by tightening and loosening the vocal folds - a process
>that is truly continuous - and not by changing the actual length of
>anything, which unless you're playing a string instrument or a trombone is
>not at all continuous. String players get to choose between this type of
>(vocal-like) note change and the mechanically discreet pitches that
>woodwinds and brass make (listen to any recording of a Tchaikovsky
>symphony). It's a little more complicated on a trombone, but the choice is
>there, too.
>
>I was also a little puzzled by the issue raised at the beginning of the
>thread about the effect of open vs. plateau-covered holes on legato. It may
>be that the difference, to the extent that it exists, is caused by the fact
>that a plateau key necessarily closes at a slight angle to the hole (it's
>pivoting from a point to the side of the hole, not directly above it) and
>that the angle of rotation creates the kind of partial closure during the
>key's travel that makes a different kind of finger stroke necessary. Again,
>it would be necessary (as it is with clarinet keys that pivot closed) for
>the player to do his/her best to minimize the time during which the back of
>the hole is closed but the front is still open - also a major point of key
>design for instrument makers. I don't play anything with plateau keys well
>enough to know how it's different, but I hear some oboe players who play
>with very smooth-sounding legato when it's called for, so the problem can't
>be insurmountable.
>
>Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all!
>
>Karl
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Shenk [mailto:jay.shenk@-----.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:42 AM
>
>While I think finger motion is just one factor in legato playing, I do
>think it is an important one. If a hole or key is pressed or closed in
>an abrupt, mechanical manner the change in notes will sound
>correspondingly abrupt. However when the hole or key is closed or
>pressed with a relaxed, more gradual motion the change in notes will be
>heard as correspondingly more gradual--more like the way a singer would
>change notes. You can experiment with this on your own by exaggerating
>this point--if you close or open a hole extremely slowly you'll get a
>glissando effect--just as a singer or string player would when they
>slide between notes. A slightly faster motion will remove the glissando
>but retain the legato feel. Try it! In contrast, you can try closing
>and opening holes with a stiff, mechanical, fast motion. Notice the
>difference in sound.
>
>Happy New Year,
>Jay Shenk
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Jonathan Cohler
Artistic & General Director
International Woodwind Festival
http://iwwf.org/
cohler@-----.org

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