Klarinet Archive - Posting 000111.txt from 2007/09

From: Fred Jacobowitz <fbjacobo@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Neilsen Concerto Puzzelment
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:41:26 -0400

Dan,
Are you not an artist? Isn't it our job, nay, raison d'etre, to judge
(and produce or recreate) artistic worth? They say history is written
by the winners. Well, often it is rewritten by the historians (artists
of history, if you will). In his time, Spohr was universally considered
a musical leading light. However, time (and history) has shown that
the 'winners' of his day were just wrong. Conversely, Mahler was
ignored and often ridiculed in his lifetime and for decades after it.
Yes, we are arbiters of artistic worth, so it IS for us to say. And,
indeed, we are saying it by not programming and performing Spohr's
work.

Fred Jacobowitz

Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
Ebony and Ivory Duo
On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:17 PM, Daniel Leeson wrote:

> I only admit that he is not frequently played. Whether or not he is a
> first
> rate composer is not for me to say.
>
> Dan Leeson
> dnleeson@-----.net
> SKYPE: dnleeson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Jacobowitz [mailto:fbjacobo@-----.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:09 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Neilsen Concerto Puzzelment
>
>
> Dan,
> Question your intelligence? NEVER!!! And I don't mind you liking the
> Spohr concerti. A chacun son gout. After all, Spohr's craftsmanship is
> not in doubt. However, I do disagree with your statement: "That they
> are rarely played is no reason to presume that they represent inferior
> music."
>
> Many is the time I am with another musician and a work by an obscure
> composer is played (either on the radio or live) and we both agree that
> "there is a reason this composer's music is not played much". I stand
> by my statement that Spohr's music is inferior to what we have come to
> agree is first-rate music. I myself have a predeliction for nonpareils
> (chocolates). While I know they are really mediocre examples of
> chocolate, I still love them. Admit it: Spohr, while a capable composer
> (and very useful for learning pieces) and attractively simple to listen
> to, is not a first-rate composer.
>
> Fred Jacobowitz
>
> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
> Ebony and Ivory Duo
> On Sep 22, 2007, at 1:54 PM, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>
>> Fred, it is purely a matter of taste. And if I like Spohr but you
>> don't,
>> that does not mean that one of us is wrong. I find substance in the
>> Spohr
>> concerti. You don't. But it is chutzpah for you to lecture me as if I
>> were
>> a Jr. High School student simply because you find the works unworthy.
>> Everybody to their own taste.
>>
>> Just keep in mind that all I said was that, "Whenever the subject of
>> the
>> "best" clarinet concerto arises (and I am staying out of that final
>> selection, thank you), I'm always surprised that hardly anyone ever
>> mentions
>> the Spohr concerti. That they are rarely
>> played is no reason to presume that they represent inferior music."
>>
>> That was a nice, calm, unprepossessing, conservative view. You don't
>> like
>> them. Don't play them. I find them harmonically imaginative, expertly
>> constructed, melodically delightful, and fitting the instrument like a
>> glove.
>>
>> You can question my intelligence, but not my taste. That is much too
>> personal to question.
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>> dnleeson@-----.net
>> SKYPE: dnleeson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Fred Jacobowitz [mailto:fbjacobo@-----.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:17 AM
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Neilsen Concerto Puzzelment
>>
>> Dan,
>> Really, now, just because they are clarinet solos and have fun
>> technical passages doesn't make the Spohr concerti ( or anything else
>> by Spohr I've heard or played) first-rate music. To say that they are
>> of equal quality with, for example, Haydn or Mozart is just plain
>> silly. Such relativism is antithetical to fine art. While all art may
>> be laudable as a human expression, the quality of that art is surely
>> just as observably geat or as comparing, for example, Pat Riley (when
>> he was a player) to Michael Jordan. Both good enough players to be in
>> the NBA but NOT equal, nor was Riley an example of a GREAT player such
>> as Jordan, Larry Bird, Kareem Jabar, etc...
>> To sum up, yes, they are inferior to what we as artists consider
>> 'great music' and to what we clarinet players almost universally judge
>> to be great concerti.
>>
>> Fred Jacobowitz
>>
>> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
>> Ebony and Ivory Duo
>> On Sep 22, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>>
>>> Whenever the subject of the "best" clarinet concerto arises (and I am
>>> staying out of that final selection, thank you), I'm always surprised
>>> that
>>> hardly anyone ever mentions the Spohr concerti. That they are rarely
>>> played
>>> is no reason to presume that they represent inferior music.
>>>
>>> Dazzling pieces.
>>>
>>> Dan Leeson
>>> dnleeson@-----.net
>>> SKYPE: dnleeson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Fred Jacobowitz [mailto:fbjacobo@-----.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 8:43 AM
>>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>>> Subject: Re: [kl] Neilsen Concerto Puzzelment
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean,
>>> I respectfully beg to differ. While this work has wonderful
>>> technical
>>> challenges and a great story line behind it, I find it frankly, ugly.
>>> I
>>> guess I'm just not that much a fan of dark, dissonant northern
>>> European
>>> music.
>>> I think that most people would agree that the best concerto we have
>>> is
>>> obviously the Mozart K622. After that, there is plenty of room for
>>> discussion. My personal favorite 20th c. concerto is the Copland,
>>> followed by the Francaix (talk about technical challenges!). I also
>>> recommend listening to the Uhl concerto, which almost nobody knows,
>>> unfortunately and the Manevich (which is unfortunately, not
>>> available).
>>> And, if you want dissonant, there's the absolutely wonderful work of
>>> genius: the Corigliano concerto!
>>> LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!!!!!! ;-)
>>>
>>> Fred Jacobowitz
>>>
>>> Kol Haruach Klezmer Band
>>> Ebony and Ivory Duo
>>> On Sep 22, 2007, at 11:28 AM, Sean Osborn wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I was the only one within 3 years of graduating that played this
>>>> piece on a
>>>>> recital. I do not think it's as prevalent as a lot of people think.
>>>> Cardillo
>>>>> didn't want me playing it - I insisted.
>>>>>
>>>>> kim
>>>>
>>>> That's a shame, because I believe it is our greatest concerto. If
>>>> you're serious about becoming a clarinetist, you need to learn this
>>>> piece before your freshman year of University is over. If you're
>>>> lagging behind the people who decided at 13 they want to be a
>>>> clarinetist, you can still catch up. I insist that all of my music
>>>> majors learn it before they graduate from UW.
>>>>
>>>> Sean
>>>> www.osbornmusic.com
>>>
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