Klarinet Archive - Posting 000107.txt from 2007/05

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?sarah=20elbaz?=" <sarah@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] SV: Wagner
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 06:33:14 -0400

Dan,
We have seen the quality of the information that you gave us in the last few days, not very impressive.
I knew Uri Toeplitz very well, he was my chamber music teacher at the Academy. He died several month ago.
Uri told his story , as a player in the orchestra. It is not an historical document.

Sarah

> -------Original Message-------
> From: dnleeson <dnleeson@-----.net>
> Subject: RE: [kl] SV: Wagner
> Sent: 13 May '07 21:13
>
> Not at all Sarah.  It is rather that you so uninformed about the
> situation that you have dates, circumstances, and reasons all
> mixed up. You don't even have the right information about when
> and why the IPO stopped playing Wagner.  If you had read Uri
> Toeplitz' history of the IPO, you might have gotten it right.
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:56 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] SV: Wagner
>
>
> Dan,
> I am sure that you are very glad that someone gave you the ladder
> to get off the tree :-)
> Sarah
>
>
> >  -------Original Message-------
> >  From: dnleeson <dnleeson@-----.net>
> >  Subject: RE: [kl] SV: Wagner
> >  Sent: 13 May '07 20:08
> >
> >  With Sarah Elbaz's comments that depart from the central issue
> of
> >  the Wagner discussion, I now withdraw from further
> participation
> >  in what has now become a confused mess. Instead of the problem
> >  becoming focused, it has become diffused and chaotic.
> >
> >  Dan Leeson
> >  DNLeeson@-----.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> >  Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:22 AM
> >  To: klarinet@-----.org
> >  Subject: Re: [kl] SV: Wagner
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  >  -------Original Message-------
> >  >  From: Paolo Leva <paolo.leva@-----.se>
> >  >  Subject: [kl] SV: Wagner
> >  >  Sent: 13 May '07 08:53
> >  >
> >  >  IMHO the complexity of Wagner's Ring really cannot be
> >  >  reduced to "good characters" against the "evil ones".
> >  >  There are no characters in the ring that are simply
> >  >  good and others that are simply bad. I wonder whether
> >  >  Wagner had any interest at all in concepts like "good"
> >  >  and "bad", I believe he did not.
> >  >
> >  >  This kind of good/bad classification is a
> >  >  simplification that might be appropriate for Disney,
> >  >  Tolkien and much of nowadays "action movies" crap, not
> >  >  for Wagner. The complexity of both characters and
> >  >  music is much greater than that. The complexity
> >  >  further increase when you put text and music together,
> >  >  since often they tell different, even opposite things.
> >  >
> >  >  For instance to see Siegfried as the "good" one
> >  >  prevailing against Mime the "bad" one is to extract
> >  >  one episode and choose to ignore the context.
> >  >  Unfortunately this is exactly the simplification done
> >  >  by the nazi to be able to use the Ring in their
> >  >  propaganda. I believe and hope that it is now time to
> >  >  move away from that simplification.
> >  >
> >  >  The Wagner of the ring is in many respect the same
> >  >  person that earlier wrote Tannhäuser and later wrote
> >  >  Parsifal, a man deeply involved to understand the
> >  >  human condition, its suffering, its fall and its way
> >  >  to redemption.
> >  >
> >  >  The mix of mythologies (German and other) was the tool
> >  >  he chose to deliver his message and to represent the
> >  >  human mind. It was not THE message.
> >  >
> >  >  I myself found the book of Robert Donington "Wagner's
> >  >  Ring and its symbol" quite a stimulating reading to
> >  >  catch this complexity, but most of all I recommend
> >  >  people wondering about antisemitism in Wagner's ring
> >  >  to go and see the whole ring with an open mind.
> >  >
> >  >  Paolo
> >
> >  Paolo,
> >
> >  I think that there is a big misunderstanding here.  The debat
> "
> >  To Wagner or not to Wagner"
> >  has nothing to do with his music, it is about the abuse of
> >  Wagner's music by the Nazis.
> >
> >  The boycott started in Israel in 1952.  Yasha Heifetz played
> >  Richard Strauss and after the concert
> >  someone attact him with an  hammer.  Only then people started
> to
> >  understand that the surviviors
> >  can not hear this music and the Israel Phil decided not to
> play
> >  Wagner and Strauss.
> >
> >  Wagner was a greart composer, there is no argument about that.
> >  Dan Lesson can write anything about Wagner
> >  but when he turns on the television and watches hundreds of
> >  advertisements, he praises
> >  Wagner.  After all , what is an advertisement if not a
> >  leitmotiv?.
> >
> >  Tony and I had a long discussion about that when he was in
> Israel
> >  last December.  I told him that
> >  the boycott against Wagner's music can not stop because for so
> >  many people the holocaust
> >  is not over yet.  There are people among us who have no idea
> when
> >  and where they were born,
> >  who are their parents and what is their name.  People with
> second
> >  and third generation syndrom
> >  can not affoerd the luxury of such debats because they need
> all
> >  the energy in the world to get up
> >  in the morning.  I have nothing against Wagner's music , but
> >  since Israel is a SHELTER and not just another
> >  state the priorities here are different.
> >
> >  If we want to to have a serious discussion about antisemitism,
> I
> >  think that we should face some more
> >  difficult questions.
> >  For example:   Amazon .com .  Is there any one on this list
> who
> >  didn't buy or sell books and CD's
> >  through Amazon?   And if I tell you that Amazon sells more
> copies
> >  of the" Protocols of the Elders of Zion"
> >  then the Bible and they refuse to stop spreading this poison
> >  because of the profit they make from this book, would you
> still
> >  buy ans sell through Amazon?
> >  I would love to get an answer to this question.
> >  Sarah Elbaz
> >
> >
> >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  Sökmotor, shopping, resor och gratis E-post online.
> >  >
> >
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