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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000089.txt from 2007/05

From: "Kelly J. White" <cealleach@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:22:08 -0400

I am a lurker how has been reading these emails about Wagner. Dan,
you mention in your second paragraph that there are 'details and
subleties involved' in Wagner's antisemitism and music. Can you give
some examples of those? I would be interested in your opinions and
thoughts on examples of Wagner's antisemitism in his music.

regards,
- Kelly

On May 11, 2007, at 8:17 PM, dnleeson wrote:

> Vann, you didn't read the criticisms very carefully. There have
> been no statements saying that Wagner's music is not worth
> listening to as music. All of the discussion has been about his
> bigotry and even that was not enough to place him beyond the
> pale. It is the fact that statements of his bigotry are part of
> the warp and woof of some of his music, not all mind you, just 3
> of the 4 operas of the Ring and Meistersinger. Others, too.
>
> Those who write that there is no hint of his antisemitism in his
> music, are probably not aware of the details and subtleties
> involved. And unless you are familiar with medieval history, you
> are not likely to find it either. But once told where and how to
> look for it, it comes at you like a dragon, and is unmistakable,
> this despite arguments to the contrary.
>
> Personally, I think his poetry and prose border on the
> ridiculous. And a great deal of his music is, to my ears, quite
> dull. That is a statement of personal taste. But some other few
> spots are about as glorious as music can get. Rossini said it
> right when he suggested that "Wagner has great moments, but bad
> quarter hours."
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MPWord -- Vann Turner [mailto:vjoet@-----.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:09 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] Wagner
>
>
> As a fairly educated person, I read. I've read that there is no
> hint of the
> anti-semitism in Wagner's librettos. I've recently read on this
> board that
> they are rife with anti-semetism. I guess I'll have to get
> translations and
> read them for myself to determine for myself if it is there.
>
> (Honestly, though, I probably won't take the time to do that. For
> I don't
> see a person being of this time and culture is something to
> castigate him
> over years later.)
>
> Now any person is certainly free to invite into, and free to
> exclude from,
> his/her experience whatever pleases. This can certainly be done
> on a
> political basis. I, for one, will not drink French wine for
> political
> reasons.
>
> But if I were to claim French wines were bad wines, I'd make
> myself a fool.
> They aren't. They are generally very fine wines.
>
> Methinks people have made themselves fools here when they
> castigated
> Wagner's music. They want it to be bad music for they don't like
> this
> personal antisemetism. But from his pen and heart came some of
> the most
> sublime music the world has witnessed: Tristan und Isolde,
> Gotterdammerung.
> They take my breath away.
>
> Perhaps we should also toss away most Germanic and Austrian
> composers, and a
> good number of the French, if our criteria for judging music has
> become
> whether or not the composer held the common views of his time.
> Methinks that
> is silly.
>
> Vann Joe
> (Amateur)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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