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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000088.txt from 2007/05

From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Wagner
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 22:17:10 -0400

Vann, you didn't read the criticisms very carefully. There have
been no statements saying that Wagner's music is not worth
listening to as music. All of the discussion has been about his
bigotry and even that was not enough to place him beyond the
pale. It is the fact that statements of his bigotry are part of
the warp and woof of some of his music, not all mind you, just 3
of the 4 operas of the Ring and Meistersinger. Others, too.

Those who write that there is no hint of his antisemitism in his
music, are probably not aware of the details and subtleties
involved. And unless you are familiar with medieval history, you
are not likely to find it either. But once told where and how to
look for it, it comes at you like a dragon, and is unmistakable,
this despite arguments to the contrary.

Personally, I think his poetry and prose border on the
ridiculous. And a great deal of his music is, to my ears, quite
dull. That is a statement of personal taste. But some other few
spots are about as glorious as music can get. Rossini said it
right when he suggested that "Wagner has great moments, but bad
quarter hours."

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: MPWord -- Vann Turner [mailto:vjoet@-----.net]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:09 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] Wagner

As a fairly educated person, I read. I've read that there is no
hint of the
anti-semitism in Wagner's librettos. I've recently read on this
board that
they are rife with anti-semetism. I guess I'll have to get
translations and
read them for myself to determine for myself if it is there.

(Honestly, though, I probably won't take the time to do that. For
I don't
see a person being of this time and culture is something to
castigate him
over years later.)

Now any person is certainly free to invite into, and free to
exclude from,
his/her experience whatever pleases. This can certainly be done
on a
political basis. I, for one, will not drink French wine for
political
reasons.

But if I were to claim French wines were bad wines, I'd make
myself a fool.
They aren't. They are generally very fine wines.

Methinks people have made themselves fools here when they
castigated
Wagner's music. They want it to be bad music for they don't like
this
personal antisemetism. But from his pen and heart came some of
the most
sublime music the world has witnessed: Tristan und Isolde,
Gotterdammerung.
They take my breath away.

Perhaps we should also toss away most Germanic and Austrian
composers, and a
good number of the French, if our criteria for judging music has
become
whether or not the composer held the common views of his time.
Methinks that
is silly.

Vann Joe
(Amateur)

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