Klarinet Archive - Posting 000134.txt from 2007/03

From: "Michael H. Graff" <mhgraff@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:47:17 -0500

Dan,

The issue is that we have not developed a common language to define tonal
characteristics.

We have agreed on the definition of notes that relates the frequency to a
note name. Comparing this to optics, we know that what people call "red" is
light with a wavelength something in the range of 620 to 700 nanometers.
Actually, people don't generally measure this quantity but anecdotally and
experientially arrive at this by listening to what others call red. Another
optical concept perhaps more aligned to defining the tone quality is the
saturation value of light. I think this may be an element of what you are
missing in your description of sound. Since all this is qualitative though
it takes some agreement on terms and then learning what we mean by this,
much in the same way we learn what red is and learn the range of saturated
values of red, i.e. by experience and feedback from others.

This is clearly difficult to do, but someone should take a shot at defining
the particular characteristic that constitutes this value of tone so we can
all talk about this in the same way. I have never been particularly happy
with bright and dark, but like saturation of colors, I have formed an
opinion on what constitutes these qualities of tone.

Dan, you are so articulate, maybe you should propose some common language
here.

Mike Graff

-----Original Message-----
From: dnleeson [mailto:dnleeson@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:43 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

Bud Hinson,

These are charming and delightful anecdotes. I am sure that your
daughter likes the tone she got from the Boosey, but what on
earth motivated her to say that she liked the dark tone? Could
she not have liked the way she sounded by simply saying that;
i.e., "Dad I like the way I sound on the Boosey!" For her to
say, "I like the dark sound I get on this Boosey," says to me
that someone told her that it was a dark sound, maybe you, so she
accepted the statement as fact, particularly if it came from you.
I presume she did not invent the concept of a dark sound out of
her own knowledge, inner being, and experience. If she did that,
she might have called it a velvet sound, or a vanilla pudding
sound. Think about why she used that vocabulary. Who primed
her?.

That you can identify your daughter when she plays is very nice.
It's fatherly. It's the kind of thing that warms you. You may
have a great ear for recognizing one instrument from another, but
to suggest that you know a dark sound when you year it, is not
evidence. It is an anecdote.

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Hinson's [mailto:bud@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:51 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

I make a meager living restoring vintage clarinets from my small
shop in NC.
My daughter, 1st chair high school and community band, had the
opportunity
over the years to try many different makes and models of
clarinets. I first
bought her a Selmer Signet that she still has. When she needed or
wanted a
better quality clarinet I bought her a new Buffet. One day she
tried a King
Marigaux, and traded her Buffet for it because of the tone. A
couple of
years later she tried a Boosey & Hawkes 8-20 and traded with me
again. She
insists the "dark" tone is what she likes and gets from the
Boosey. I do a
lot of old Selmers for some very good pro jazz players, and I
know
beforehand that she won't like the tone. She'll say it's easy to
play but
it's too bright. I can take that same clarinet to her after
changing the
tone by trying a few different mouthpieces and she'll love it. I
conclude
from those experiences that the tone differences are largely
dependent on
mouthpiece and reeds.
When I think of a darker sound, it's a mellow and sweet tone,
regardless of
volume. I can pick out the sound from my daughter from a very
full clarinet
section...it projects well, but is without the edge of the other
players.
She played recently in a 20 clarinet section in the all district
band, and I
was able to tell her, and she said later she knew I'd be able to,
where she
got lost in a couple of fast runs and faked it. The brighter tone
many of my
jazz customers want has the sharp, cutting edge that competes
with the brass
and can with effort demand attention. I have a customer now
looking for a
clarinet with a "dark" tone...I told her to come try a few
different
mouthpieces first and we'll take it from there...I can't agree
that "dark"
and "bright" sound are meaningless, since I have to deal with
tone issues
constantly...but there should be some better way to describe the
variety of
different tones....soft,sweet,fluid,harsh,brash,...maybe my
daughter sounds
mildly sweet with pleasing harmonious projection ?

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date:
3/8/2007 10:58 AM

------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------

   
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org