Klarinet Archive - Posting 000123.txt from 2007/03

From: "Hinson's" <bud@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Bright and dark sounds
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:51:24 -0500

I make a meager living restoring vintage clarinets from my small shop in NC.
My daughter, 1st chair high school and community band, had the opportunity
over the years to try many different makes and models of clarinets. I first
bought her a Selmer Signet that she still has. When she needed or wanted a
better quality clarinet I bought her a new Buffet. One day she tried a King
Marigaux, and traded her Buffet for it because of the tone. A couple of
years later she tried a Boosey & Hawkes 8-20 and traded with me again. She
insists the "dark" tone is what she likes and gets from the Boosey. I do a
lot of old Selmers for some very good pro jazz players, and I know
beforehand that she won't like the tone. She'll say it's easy to play but
it's too bright. I can take that same clarinet to her after changing the
tone by trying a few different mouthpieces and she'll love it. I conclude
from those experiences that the tone differences are largely dependent on
mouthpiece and reeds.
When I think of a darker sound, it's a mellow and sweet tone, regardless of
volume. I can pick out the sound from my daughter from a very full clarinet
section...it projects well, but is without the edge of the other players.
She played recently in a 20 clarinet section in the all district band, and I
was able to tell her, and she said later she knew I'd be able to, where she
got lost in a couple of fast runs and faked it. The brighter tone many of my
jazz customers want has the sharp, cutting edge that competes with the brass
and can with effort demand attention. I have a customer now looking for a
clarinet with a "dark" tone...I told her to come try a few different
mouthpieces first and we'll take it from there...I can't agree that "dark"
and "bright" sound are meaningless, since I have to deal with tone issues
constantly...but there should be some better way to describe the variety of
different tones....soft,sweet,fluid,harsh,brash,...maybe my daughter sounds
mildly sweet with pleasing harmonious projection ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

> Both Jenny's note and that of Martin Baxter that generated it
> (which should also be below) are outstanding examples of what I
> think of as an ingrained, immovable, and unalterable
> clarinet-playing perception about the nature of the sound
> produced by the instrument. It has become almost as firm as
> genetics in the world of clarinet playing. Jenny, who is two
> generation away from Bonade gives specifics on how to attain the
> "dark" sound.
>
> On the other hand, Martin's mind on the matter is so made up that
> he does not even think that the subject is "worth further
> discussion;" i.e., it is so clear and obvious to him that it is
> not even worth talking about.
>
> I give up. Once a bad idea gets this ingrained, rational thought
> gets one no where. The idea of a sound that is "dark" or "bright"
> is so fixed in the mindset of American clarinet players, that
> they are unwilling even to think that the idea of sound being
> capable of having such a character is, in my opinion, inherently
> flawed, a waste of time to pursue, and a way to confuse younger
> players by imposing imprecise descriptive words is an idea that
> is without substance.
>
> We can't define it, we are unable to be precise about what is
> necessary to get it, we are not sure that we or anyone else has
> it, we can't explain it to anyone, but that it exists and is
> available to anyone borders a pedagogical tragedy akin to
> searching for the Holy Grail.
>
> I GIVE UP!!
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jenny Connors [mailto:jenny@-----.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:23 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds
>
>
>
> In my case, my teacher (who studied enough with Bonade many years
> ago to
> place a high value on tone) is/was able to give me more specifics
> than
> generalities on how to attain the "dark" sound. To keep my mouth
> firm but
> not tight around the mouthpiece, to take in as much of the reed
> as possible
> in my mouth, to be conscious of the amount of air pressure I am
> using as I
> diminuendo, and across the board, to play the higher notes ever
> so slightly
> softer than the lower notes. In addition, listen, listen,
> listen, then
> imitate. I will probably never have a Bonade sound, and I've
> always had
> good tone (according to others, it was never something I thought
> about until
> I picked up lessons again), but I can hear a difference now, both
> in my own
> playing and in others.
>
> Jenny
> (amateur) doubler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter@-----.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:23 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Bright and dark sounds
>
> Dan
> This matter does seem worth further discussion.
> I have always believed that by slight variations in embouchure I
> can alter
> the sound I make; ignoring the variations given by different
> reed/m'piece
> combinations. Do you not consider this is so? If it is so; and
> others seem
> to hear me doing it, what actually is happening?
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2007, at 00:52, dnleeson wrote:
>
>>
>> Tim, it seems to me that you have neglected an important aspect
> of
>> this issue, namely this: what does a player do to exercise
> control
>> over the proportion of the frequencies that create either
> bright
>> sounds or dark sounds? How does the mechanism work? A student
> says,
>> "I want to have a dark sound. What do I have to do to get
> one?" And
>> the answer cannot be, "change the proportion of the frequencies
> you
>> produce and the sound will be dark." That is neither
> comprehensible
>> nor meaningful nor do-able. It is witchcraft used to achieve an
> end
>> that is entirely unclear.
>>
>> I perceive that you are using a scientific method to describe
> sound
>> characters, but with no idea of how one achieves those given
> popular
>> but meaningless names of dark and bright.
>>
>> Dan Leeson
>
>
>
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