Klarinet Archive - Posting 000120.txt from 2007/03

From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:53:42 -0500

I do not deny that for one millisecond there are differences in
sound character from person to person. But I do very much object
to the characterization of those differences as being the simples
"dark" and "bright" sound, because those terms are meaningless.

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael H. Graff [mailto:mhgraff@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:27 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

Dan,

Are you trying to imply that there is no difference in sound that
varies
from individual to individual, or you just don't know how to
articulate the
difference in some precise way? How about the sound produced by
the same
individual. Is the sound that an individual produces using a
soft reed the
same as a proper strength reed? It also seems to me that jazz
players strive
to create a different "quality" of sound than symphony orchestra
players.
How would you describe that?

I think I could describe the characteristic of a particular sound
quantitatively as the makeup of the frequency spectrum (amount of
fundamental vs. various harmonic frequency content) and
alternative
qualitatively by agreed upon descriptions of sound. The problem
of course
is that we don't have an agreed language for the qualitative
description of
sound, so bright and dark are used as first order qualitative
descriptions.

Maybe if you clarify your concerns further, we could make some
progress in
describing the differences in sound that is being perceived by
the various
comments in this thread.

I find your comments on all aspects of music very illuminating,
but I must
be missing your point on this thread.

Mike Graff

-----Original Message-----
From: dnleeson [mailto:dnleeson@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:19 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

Both Jenny's note and that of Martin Baxter that generated it
(which should also be below) are outstanding examples of what I
think of as an ingrained, immovable, and unalterable
clarinet-playing perception about the nature of the sound
produced by the instrument. It has become almost as firm as
genetics in the world of clarinet playing. Jenny, who is two
generation away from Bonade gives specifics on how to attain the
"dark" sound.

On the other hand, Martin's mind on the matter is so made up that
he does not even think that the subject is "worth further
discussion;" i.e., it is so clear and obvious to him that it is
not even worth talking about.

I give up. Once a bad idea gets this ingrained, rational thought
gets one no where. The idea of a sound that is "dark" or "bright"
is so fixed in the mindset of American clarinet players, that
they are unwilling even to think that the idea of sound being
capable of having such a character is, in my opinion, inherently
flawed, a waste of time to pursue, and a way to confuse younger
players by imposing imprecise descriptive words is an idea that
is without substance.

We can't define it, we are unable to be precise about what is
necessary to get it, we are not sure that we or anyone else has
it, we can't explain it to anyone, but that it exists and is
available to anyone borders a pedagogical tragedy akin to
searching for the Holy Grail.

I GIVE UP!!

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jenny Connors [mailto:jenny@-----.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:23 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: RE: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

In my case, my teacher (who studied enough with Bonade many years
ago to
place a high value on tone) is/was able to give me more specifics
than
generalities on how to attain the "dark" sound. To keep my mouth
firm but
not tight around the mouthpiece, to take in as much of the reed
as possible
in my mouth, to be conscious of the amount of air pressure I am
using as I
diminuendo, and across the board, to play the higher notes ever
so slightly
softer than the lower notes. In addition, listen, listen,
listen, then
imitate. I will probably never have a Bonade sound, and I've
always had
good tone (according to others, it was never something I thought
about until
I picked up lessons again), but I can hear a difference now, both
in my own
playing and in others.

Jenny
(amateur) doubler

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter@-----.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:23 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] Bright and dark sounds

Dan
This matter does seem worth further discussion.
I have always believed that by slight variations in embouchure I
can alter
the sound I make; ignoring the variations given by different
reed/m'piece
combinations. Do you not consider this is so? If it is so; and
others seem
to hear me doing it, what actually is happening?
Martin

On 8 Mar 2007, at 00:52, dnleeson wrote:

>
> Tim, it seems to me that you have neglected an important aspect
of
> this issue, namely this: what does a player do to exercise
control
> over the proportion of the frequencies that create either
bright
> sounds or dark sounds? How does the mechanism work? A student
says,
> "I want to have a dark sound. What do I have to do to get
one?" And
> the answer cannot be, "change the proportion of the frequencies
you
> produce and the sound will be dark." That is neither
comprehensible
> nor meaningful nor do-able. It is witchcraft used to achieve an
end
> that is entirely unclear.
>
> I perceive that you are using a scientific method to describe
sound
> characters, but with no idea of how one achieves those given
popular
> but meaningless names of dark and bright.
>
> Dan Leeson

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