Klarinet Archive - Posting 000080.txt from 2007/03

From: Martin Baxter <martinbaxter@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] orchestral sounds
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 07:34:25 -0500

Colin (if I may, )
o say so well. I can also confirm we played a similar game at
Kneller Hall in 1960, ide3ntifyingOn 5 Mar 2007, at 22:42,
colin.touchin@-----.com wrote:
Thanks for putting what I also wanted to say so well. We did a
similar excercise at Kneller Hall in 19060; identifying Britiah
Orchestras from recordings. Most of us used to gamble on our accuracy
too.
Martin

> Well, Dan (if I may?), your own ears must have heard differences
> between
> orchestral tone/style/manner so you're partly winding us up, of
> course.
> What you ask for may not be possible, that is: language description of
> sensations which are purely musical impressions, and may not be
> capable
> of sufficiently precise labels for other listeners to share/agree/
> disagree
> about the experiences at issue. There may well be measurable
> differences
> using scientific equipment and numbers in certain scales and
> parameters.
> But noone surely can deny that these differences exist however they be
> measured/described? Why they exist, whether they exist throughout
> centuries or happen at particular times in the development of
> ensembles
> and managements and conductors is another point of direct relevance.
>
> In the 70's I used to play several recorded orchestral samples in
> lectures,
> asking students to identify the nationality of the orchestra
> playing (the same
> work) - more than chance identified French, German and US/UK
> correctly.
> I would say that this test done today with contemporary recordings
> would
> not be so successful, because I believe the international exchange of
> recordings, broadcasts and touring ensembles has increased exposure to
> more possible sounds and equally limited the variation of those
> sounds.
> Listen for an obvious example to French horns in Russian orchestras
> upto
> about the mid-80's and many display a significant vibrato. After
> this time it
> was possible to hear non-vibrato French horns in Russia.
> In England our fine Simon Rattle and the City of Birmingham Symphony
> Orchestra uniquely developed abilities to play French music with a
> French
> style and timbre, and German with German, English with English, etc. -
> adapting their quality of production to suit the composers' likely
> intentions.
> Many orchestras use one general style and tone for almost all they
> play (it
> saves rehearsal time!).
> Interestingly the most French sound I have on disc seems to be The
> Berlin
> Phil with Pierre Boulez in Debussy - the greatest conductor and
> orchestra
> exploring the nuances of harmony and texture throughout refined
> instrumental resources to create magical colours and effects. And
> also
> dispelling the notion that that orchestra produce always one sound;
> but it
> takes a master craftsman at the podium to make changes, to have the
> knowledge and skill to mould the players' skills towards a composer's
> imagination.
> OK, so what is it that makes it French? - clarity of individual
> lines, balance
> and blend of string textures, projection of certain wind colours
> inside
> chords, etc. No description of the attributes, agreed, but
> pointers to the
> areas in which my ear hears distinct differences from any other
> recording or
> performance of the same piece. Further, the way accent and tenuto are
> employed on individual notes at the starts and in the peaks of
> phrases to
> show specific shape, different again from more prosaic readings.
> This in
> wind terms done with carefully controlled breath, emphasis, decay of
> sound, and in string terms, in bow weight, speed and pressure.
> One can analyse momentary sounds, measuring and weighing their timbral
> and textural make-up; one can analyse the additive effect successive
> sounds create; and one can then compare these with other
> performances of
> the same piece. Ultimately it is, inevitably, personal preference
> based on
> our own experiences, of what seems to match our expectation and
> understanding of the style and sound of French, German, Italian,
> Russian
> sounds, etc. and all that pre-supposes we can access our personal
> life's
> memories of sounds we have heard and made in the pursuit of musical
> understanding and imaginative development.
> That area connects with the other list discussion of gender: we all
> of us are
> the result of our education and opportunity: different countries
> train and
> prepare musicians in different ways - there are different
> expectations in
> bowing, blowing, creating and re-creating sounds. Some countries
> are very
> traditionally founded in their conservatoires and orchestral
> profession and
> until the international influence of equality and integration
> reaches every
> area from infant school through to adulthood, these differences will
> continue to exist. Some of the results of this training will be
> audible,
> because the performers cannot help but play in that tradition or
> with that
> style of the colleagues surrounding them in those ensembles; and those
> auditioning for new members of those ensembles will understandably
> listen
> out for candidates who most nearly match the current sound, and
> will need
> less adaptation time to become integrated.
> Didn't Groucho Marx say something about membership of clubs?
> Best wishes, Colin Touchin.
>
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